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Bazaar on Angrathar


NinjaWitaSniper
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Bazaar on Angrathar?  

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3 hours ago, nimeralos said:

Don't think it's a good idea. It'll work like WoW Tokens. Perhaps WoW Tokens are nice in Legion, but I don't hink they fit WotLK well. It won't stop illegal goldsellers because they'll offer it cheaper. I dislike the idea of gold being traded legally. Just ban more.

Look at Kronos, they had - well, not gold, but character - trade for years, but now disabled all this crap for their new server. Because it doesn't look well for "purists" - and each server has a  bunch of them.

See guys. This right here is a valid argument. Not "Enable and people will leave" He has a reason why he doesnt want it.

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Happy to tie up the vote. I think Bazaar *should* be implemented (and that retail should have been F2P with bazaar-like ingame market from the get-go) with some caveats; here's why:

1) It will snuff out the illicit gold trade almost overnight, I suspect. Dunno about Feronis but I can't see gold farming operations surviving the implementation of a $/gold system;

2) The economy is starving for gold right now. There are too many gold dumps (training, skills, repairs etc---especially since Naxx), thus prices for normally profitable farmable goods (Chunk o' Mammoth comes to mind, currently 75s/ea on Angrathar, 'should' be somewhere around 2g/ea). Keynesian stimulus usually results in massive artificial demand and bubbles, and I expect a certain amount to be sure, but with all the gold dumps sucking currency out of the economy I think this should balance out and even create new markets for otherwise unprofitable markets (lowbie, non-cloth trade goods, PVP commodities, etc);

3) The devs have taken a firm stance against selling raid, tier and custom gear, which is REALLY SUPER encouraging as far as I'm concerned. This gives me a lot of confidence in the future of the server, the fidelity and integrity of the devs, and the potential success of a 'gold injection' system (such that it will, for the most part, only go one way: $ > SC > gold, as opposed to the other way around, serving as just another gold dump---already too many of those).

I of course see the potential for corruption, but the devs have done nothing but impress me from the start. The very minute I see raid or tier gear up on the Sunwell store, though, I'm outta here. Not messing around with *another* server that does nothing but cater to dolphins and whales.

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On 24/2/2018 at 1:28 AM, NinjaWitaSniper said:

>Gets triggered at the thought of someone supporting the server

>Gets triggered at the thought of someone trading gold for money

>Keeps ignoring my points, keeps arguing same point (A weak one at that)without evidence

>Keeps using ad homonym

>Continues to call me stupid

Feronis had this since launch, and had 0 issues with it, and Feronis has a huge population.

And if you want to pull the blizzlike card, this server is a x2 server, thats not blizzlike. This server also has a x4 that is being given away and can be bought, thats not blizzlike. You can buy and sell characters on this server, thats not blizzlike.

Again, if it bothers you people so much (Cant even provide an authentic arguments),  then go play somewhere else.

If not, vote and wait.

Haha cant stop loling with this guy every person argument against him is not a real argument.. OK

 

Feronis is a polish server if polish server wants such things is ok but international community dont want such things so dont use feronis as a example.

 

And blizzlike is a perfect argument since XP rates are "out of blizzlike idea" for a lot of people, the people who is playing this server instead of other idiotic x1 server who has failed recently. People here is not afraid of XP rates and are ok with it like me and you. To have low XP rates only has sense the first time you play the game but not anymore in 2k18 so stop using non authentic arguments puting on the same place increased XP rates and bazaar LOL can i LOL MORE? WTFF 

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8 hours ago, Anikilator23 said:

Haha cant stop loling with this guy every person argument against him is not a real argument.. OK

Not Authentic Arguments, aka Ad Homonyms or arguments made without evidence or a solid claim.

On 2/23/2018 at 4:01 AM, Anikilator23 said:

Enable that -> Loose toons of players

Baseless claim, saying if Bazaar was enabled, everyone would leave.

On 2/23/2018 at 4:18 AM, TriHard said:

/thread

Saying /thread after quoting one of the devs saying its not enabled because people didnt want it enabled on launch of server

On 2/23/2018 at 4:47 AM, TriHard said:

1. Buy SC for $

2. Sell SC for gold

3. Buy bis trinket (greatness) with gold

Not p2win btw.

Saying trading SC for Gold is pay to win

On 2/23/2018 at 5:10 AM, TriHard said:

You're not even linking Heroic version, are you baiting? If so, nice. Made me reply.

Arguing that I didn't link heroic versions of items

On 2/23/2018 at 5:14 AM, TriHard said:

Not right now, just in general.

(When I asked if I was being retarded)

On 2/23/2018 at 5:38 AM, TriHard said:

Why are those topics always created by dumbest people on the whole server who can't achieve anything in game and want to spend irl money which they can't really afford to achieve something?

Calling me stupid, then straw mans me (the strawman is I need to spend money to win games)

On 2/23/2018 at 7:42 AM, TriHard said:

>can't link proper item

>doesn't know where darkmoon card greatness is from

>doesn't understand basic economy

And somehow I'm the stupid one. Ok buddy. Also please check your spelling before replying again.

His argument is that I am not allowed to discuss this because I didn't link the proper item, and I didnt know what Greatness was.

And then says I dont understand basic economy, even though I do understand basic economy. He even said gold comes out of no where, and only evidence he provided was quest gold, even though thats somewhere gold comes from?

Also I quoted someone and said that what he was saying was a proper argument, he wasn't even agreeing with me.

FFS can you read the entire thread before you start calling people stupid?

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8 hours ago, NinjaWitaSniper said:

Saying /thread after quoting one of the devs saying its not enabled because people didnt want it enabled on launch of server

I wasn't quoting one of the devs, Mr Cule isn't dev, he's admin and doing all the announcements about the server - he's one of the most important people on this server (if not most important) - nice fake news.

8 hours ago, NinjaWitaSniper said:

Saying trading SC for Gold is pay to win.

Buying BiS trinket for $$$ isn't pay to win? Let's put DBW in the store, wonder what people will think about that. Inb4 "it's not the same". Yes it is.

8 hours ago, NinjaWitaSniper said:

Arguing that I didn't link heroic versions of items

His argument is that I am not allowed to discuss this because I didn't link the proper item, and I didnt know what Greatness was.

Well you DID link the wrong item, shows how little you know about the game. You keep getting """offended""" by """ad homonym""" instead of responding to actual arguments, that's why arguing with you is pointless.

8 hours ago, NinjaWitaSniper said:

And then says I dont understand basic economy, even though I do understand basic economy. He even said gold comes out of no where, and only evidence he provided was quest gold, even though thats somewhere gold comes from?

Well you clearly DON'T understand basic economy. At launch there is exactly 0 gold on the whole server, and yet people now have literally thousands of gold. So where did it come from? Gold isn't finite resource, you can generate as much of it as you want. The issue is the more gold is generated the less it's worth (B A D for economy). 

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2 hours ago, TriHard said:

Well you DID link the wrong item, shows how little you know about the game. You keep getting """offended""" by """ad homonym""" instead of responding to actual arguments, that's why arguing with you is pointless.

Not responding to actual arguments? Yes I have, youre the one who constantly and consistently ignore the points I make.

What do you call this then?

On 2/23/2018 at 6:10 AM, NinjaWitaSniper said:

you know, I would have respect for you if you didn't resort to ad homonyms all the time

Second of all, you would have a point if this discussion was about buying gold from the server i.e. Warmane, because on Warmane this has affected the economy.

Ill make my argument as basic as I can (even though I've been doing this)

  • The gold does not come from the ether.
  • The gold requires a player to farm or use professions.
  • There is a 10% tax on all transactions on the Bazaar, this does make the Coins and the Gold go into the ether.
  • You must not spend the gold, you have to hold onto it, for days, or even weeks before someone buys it.
  • In order for this to be pay to win, in your eyes, it would allow players to buy items not yet obtainable, which is not the case. The Bazaar allows players to buy gold to use on items already available on the AH, already in the hands of players, who in some cases, will already have better gear.
  • The gold must already have been picked up and put into the economy, this not only helps keep the economy from becoming bloated, it undercuts gold sellers, and keeps the economy from experiencing inflation.
  • This does not let players buy items that haven't already been put on the AH, or allows players to get items from raids not yet released.

 

The difference between this and some mobile game with micro-transactions, is that you're not buying a premium currency that allows you to break the game, and the currency doesn't spawn from no where.

 

Also, when you say the prices of everything will go up, do you have any evidence to support such a claim, because IIRC Feronis has the bazaar, and their economy is healthy.

Also no one is getting offended, understand the definition of an ad homonym fallacy before you try talking shit about it, an ad homonym is where you insult someone in place of an argument, or use an insult to discredit someone, like you have been doing, calling me stupid and idiot and such.

How do you function as an adult? Honestly?

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*edit* Also, as I've said before, I'm neither for or against the Bazaar, Dredd asked me to make a poll, so I made a poll, I'm arguing because all I hear is "pay-to-win" when its not pay to win? You can still get the gold to buy the item, that most people will either be geared enough to get, or already have it or better. Using the Auction House normally is not pay to win, I can go farm gold right now, and go get everything that I would need from the AH with a few hours of farming and profession working and trading.

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On 23.02.2018 at 3:10 PM, NinjaWitaSniper said:
  • The gold requires a player to farm or use professions.
  • There is a 10% tax on all transactions on the Bazaar, this does make the Coins and the Gold go into the ether.
  • You must not spend the gold, you have to hold onto it, for days, or even weeks before someone buys it.
  • In order for this to be pay to win, in your eyes, it would allow players to buy items not yet obtainable, which is not the case. The Bazaar allows players to buy gold to use on items already available on the AH, already in the hands of players, who in some cases, will already have better gear.
  • The gold must already have been picked up and put into the economy, this not only helps keep the economy from becoming bloated, it undercuts gold sellers, and keeps the economy from experiencing inflation.
  • This does not let players buy items that haven't already been put on the AH, or allows players to get items from raids not yet released.

1. Professions are gold sinks, actual gold comes only from mobs and quests (aka ether), the rest of the gold acquisition is just trading between players. You can easily get rich spending 30 minutes daily on AH. 

2. AH is taxed too, and WAY more gold moves through AH than through Bazaar. Check whole value of items on AH and whole value of Bazaar on Feronis, I'll bet one of those is at least 20 times bigger than the other. 

3. Ok? If you want to get the highest price sure, if you put it 5% below market value it will go in 10 min. I don't see how this has to do with anything.

4. "People already have BiS gear, so it's okay for me to buy BiS gear for $$$" - to me it's not okay.

5. All Bazaar does is encourage people to put extra gold into the economy, and thus creating inflation. All it does for gold sellers is telling them how to set their price - if you have to pay 10$ to buy 1k gold with SC goldseller are gonna sell it for 5$/1k.

6. It just so happens that before TOC BiS items are actually from AH. Tough luck, try again after it's released.

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9 minutes ago, TriHard said:

1. Professions are gold sinks, actual gold comes only from mobs and quests (aka ether), the rest of the gold acquisition is just trading between players. You can easily get rich spending 30 minutes daily on AH. 

2. AH is taxed too, and WAY more gold moves through AH than through Bazaar. Check whole value of items on AH and whole value of Bazaar on Feronis, I'll bet one of those is at least 20 times bigger than the other. 

3. Ok? If you want to get the highest price sure, if you put it 5% below market value it will go in 10 min. I don't see how this has to do with anything.

4. "People already have BiS gear, so it's okay for me to buy BiS gear for $$$" - to me it's not okay.

5. All Bazaar does is encourage people to put extra gold into the economy, and thus creating inflation. All it does for gold sellers is telling them how to set their price - if you have to pay 10$ to buy 1k gold with SC goldseller are gonna sell it for 5$/1k.

6. It just so happens that before TOC BiS items are actually from AH. Tough luck, try again after it's released.

See? How hard was that? That's all I wanted, you have my respect back.

Just to think this call could have been avoided, dont even have the energy to even refute your points.

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30 minutes ago, TriHard said:

1. Professions are gold sinks, actual gold comes only from mobs and quests (aka ether), the rest of the gold acquisition is just trading between players. You can easily get rich spending 30 minutes daily on AH. 

2. AH is taxed too, and WAY more gold moves through AH than through Bazaar. Check whole value of items on AH and whole value of Bazaar on Feronis, I'll bet one of those is at least 20 times bigger than the other. 

3. Ok? If you want to get the highest price sure, if you put it 5% below market value it will go in 10 min. I don't see how this has to do with anything.

4. "People already have BiS gear, so it's okay for me to buy BiS gear for $$$" - to me it's not okay.

5. All Bazaar does is encourage people to put extra gold into the economy, and thus creating inflation. All it does for gold sellers is telling them how to set their price - if you have to pay 10$ to buy 1k gold with SC goldseller are gonna sell it for 5$/1k.

6. It just so happens that before TOC BiS items are actually from AH. Tough luck, try again after it's released.

1-5 is pretty irrelevant and some of them I don't even agree but it's 'whatever'.

6 though is very legitimate and I see how this could change the game. A lot of valuable items in these early patches are BoE and could be considered 'p2w'. Although the prices are crazy high and the gold in realm right now is pretty low in comparison to future patches, there will be probably some dudes with professions "son" who will be able to afford some decent gear.

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I'm against the idea but since i'm on my phone i'd rather not write a book about it since most of the points i agree with has already been written by others.

And secondly, i've never understood why they want people to make their own polls, it's not going to get more than 100-200 votes at tops, which is a VERY VERY small portion of the server population.

Majority of players never look at forums and getting such a big change thrown in their face would not be ideal from my POV.

I do see your point and others who want it, but it's just not enough positives compared to negatives and when not even 2% of the server population is going to vote it's too big of a change.

I'ts a No from me.

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9 minutes ago, zelatos said:

it's not going to get more than 100-200 votes at tops, which is a VERY VERY small portion of the server population.

Majority of players never look at forums.

That's EXACTLY why those polls are created. All you need is 100 people to push your agenda and you can get what you want.

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2 hours ago, TriHard said:

That's EXACTLY why those polls are created. All you need is 100 people to push your agenda and you can get what you want.

Dredd wanted a poll to be created to see if enough people take interest, in order to do an official poll? No one said anything about this poll being official.

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I play somewhat casually and while I don't really mind since it's a free server.

 

If another player spends a bit of money they are already ahead of me. Since people on this server want a GS that's as high as the damn item drops from the instance, I would basically just have no reason to play anymore.

 

But buying things like mounts/xmog/pets or whatever is fine.

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