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Dear players,

First of all, we hope you are staying healthy, wish you all the best during this rough time.

Long awaited moment just arrived! We would like to share information regarding Mythic+ project with you, and start the discussion about your expectations.

 

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"The Mythic+ Dungeon system is a known mode of content that offers players an endlessly scaling challenge in 5-player dungeons. The system allows players to compete against a timer, similar to Challenge Modes, but has much more lenient times so that the emphasis is on solid execution rather than pure speed."
~ www.wowhead.com

General information

Mythic+ was implemented in Legion as an alternative system of completing dungeons in harder form, mainly for people who hadn't time for playing raids and players who wanted to compete in something new - scaling challanging mode. It is obviously the case that Wrath of the Lich King expansion doesn't have such system, so our development had to find the workaround in order to create comparable gameplay. Inspired and based on retail, the following is a basic, step-by-step described mythic+ dungeon we can provide you.

Firstly, we wanted to release this project during Ulduar content. There were three reasons why we decided to delay it:
1. Not gonna lie - there was simply more work to do than we expected;
2. We probably could make it but we didn't want to rush and provide you unfinished and fully tested product;
3. Trial of the Crusader content is known as the most boring because of its shortness - raids are way to easy and less complex compared to other contents. It was another reason to delay this launch and start this fun when people will start getting bored;

Overview

1. Completing a Mythic+ dungeon will reward mainly Mythic Power and epic gear, more info in Loot & Times section;
2. Mythic+ dungeons have levels: a level 3 dungeon will be more difficult than a level 2, but easier than a level 5. There is cap of available Mythic+ dungeon levels set to 10/15. However, the highest level will be an outstanding piece of difficulty where mechanics will change everyday. In addition, Mythic level cap is still being discussed by our team.
3. Enemies in the dungeons will deal more damage and will have higher health pools with each level your party conquers;
4. A higher-level Mythic+ dungeon rewards better loot, more info in Loot & Times section.
 

Mythic Level & Mythic Keystones

1. Mythic Level is the individual currency or item bound to each player that defines Mythic Keystone power for that player. Keystone is single item that will always look the same. If player has Mythic Level set to 5 then Keystone will activate Mythic +5 dungeon, if player has Mythic Level 3, the same Keystone will activate Mythic +3 dungeon version;
2. Only party leader will be able to start Mythic+ version. Appropriate gameobject will be present on the entrance of dungeon in order to start Mythic+ with difficulty level related to leader's Mythic Keystone. Leader needs to put Keystone into game object to begin the show;
3. In order to obtain Keystone player needs to complete one simple quest (like win rbg/rdf) or you can get it from Sunwell store;
4. If party finish Mythic+ dungeon in Gold time (more info in Loot & Times section), players will receive new Keystones in chest at the end of dungeons so they don't have to complete quest (point 3.) once again;
5. If party won't finish dungeon in Gold time (more info in Loot & Times section), player needs to repeat quest in order to obtain new Mythic Keystone;
6. Repeatable quest will change after some period of time - completing shall be easy e.g do some rdfs or win random battleground;
7. In order to start Mythic instance, you will have to talk to Mythic NPC and convert your group to Mythic one (this will also set Mythic Level that you will be playing against). Npc will also allow you to teleport yourself to instance location. Upon entering the instance, creatures won't be attackable until group activates Mythic obelisk which requires an Keystone you can obtain via a battleground win, dungeon repeatable quest completion or the store.

Mechanics

1. Every instance will start at one affix and every few levels will gain additional capping at 4/5 affixes in total. A few affixes will look very similar to what currently Blizzard has, such as, Bolstering, Sanguine, Quaking. There is also a bunch of affixxes that we came up with and they are quite unique;
2. Some of the enemies (both boss and non-boss creatures) will receive additional spells with higher Mythic+ dungeon levels;
3. At the beginning of the Mythic season, we will roll a set of affixes which will be known from the start and they will be changing either weekly or daily.

Mythic+ Seasons

1. Mythic Keystones won't disappear and your mythic level won't decrease with ID reset on Wednesday. We want to make our mythics more like in league seasons that will last for around month where groups with the fastest Mythic Level dungeons completion will be additionaly rewarded;
2. First season will start during Trial of the Crusader content, next season shall start right after the previous one;

Loot & Times

1. Trash loot will be similar to the trash loot in raids, but without epic items dropping;
2. Once group starts a mythic instance via obelisk, a timer will start to run till you finish the instance. Your objective is to beat the timer, and if you do you will be awarded appropriately;
3. Lets say total time to finish the dungeon is set to 30 minutes. Example of timers divison looks like this:

a) Gold Time is achieved by party when dungeon is finished in first 10 minutes;
b) Silver Time is achieved by party when dungeon is finished in first 20 minutes;
c) Bronze Time is achieved by party when dungeon is finished in total instance timer (30 minutes);
d) If 30 minutes passed, party can still complete the dungeon but loot won't be such abundant compared to better timers;

4. On higher Mythic+ levels we may add feature that timer decreases by some actions (30 seconds) for example everytime when player dies;
5. Bosses won't drop any loot. Instead, whenever you finish a mythic dungeon you will be awarded with loot at the end of the instance;
6. Chest will contain different loot depending on timer dungeon was completed within (Gold, Silver, Bronze, time passed). Below we present initial design (Mythic Power values may change) of loot that will drop on Mythic dungeons:

a) Timer passed: Emblems of Conquest, 5-20 Mythic Power, Epic Items;
b) Bronze Time: Emblems of Conquest, 10-30 Mythic Power, Epic Items (more than if time has passed);
c) Silver Time: Legendary/T3 single use transmog items, Conquest, 15-35 Mythic Power, Epic Items (more than in Bronze Time);
d) Gold Time: Mythic Keystones, Legendary/T3 transmog items, Emblems of Triumph, 20-50 Mythic Power, Epic Items (more than in Silver Time);

7. Epic Items: on retail there are plenty of systems to generate additional (ranked) gear on mythic dungeons. Since we don't have such system on WotLK we propose to add epic loot from previous content. Mythic dungeons will drop better loot (Ulduar, Naxxramas, EoE, OS, VoA) with higher mythic level. For example Mythic +3 will drop some gear from Naxxramas 10/25, EoE 10/25 and OS 10/25 whilst Mythic +6 will start to drop gear from Ulduar 10 etc, maybe we can even add Ulduar 25 loot (w/o Fragments) to highest reachable Mythic+ levels. What are you thinking about this solution?;
8. Mythic Power: Mythic Power is new emblem-like currency that will always drop from any Mythic+ dungeon version. You will be able to exchange Mythic Power in vendor for plenty of items:

a) consumables like flasks, potions, flame caps, gems etc;
b) honor packs;
c) store items like mounts, custom mounts, bags, tabards, companions, transmog items, heirloms and many others - we didn't want to force loot from store to specific bosses so we decided to add new currency so you can exchange it however you like;

Season Rewards

1. There will be new ranking on Sunwell main page with fastest mythic level parties, we predict in-kind prizes for the best times (probably Amazon vouchers);
2. We want to provide rewards every season;
3. Probably only Gold Timers will be put into rankings;

Second thoughts - we would like to know your opinion

We would like to keep the Mythic+ system with no lockouts, meaning the same Mythic+ dungeon can be completed as much as desired, as long as at least one player (party leader) has a Mythic Key. However, we are aware this may bring unwanted/unexpected behaviors like kicking players right after entering the Mythic Key to object. What's your opinion here? Maybe we should disable kicking players on M+ versions? Furthermore, let us know what you think about our idea of Mythic+ experience we proposed and share your own ideas with us.

Mythic API will be shared, so you can create your own addons for our Mythic+ project. We will also provide one addon for you in the future.

 

! ATTENTION !
This is the alpha version of mythic feature and its implementation. Final version might differ by a lot, we're open to your feedback and ideas which we're very open to. We want to create a good experience for everyone.

? FEEDBACK
? THOUGHTS
? IDEAS

Give us more ideas so we can make it better for you.

 

Best regards,
Sunwell Team

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It's all fine you wanna add previous tiers to the mythic loot tables...but please give people an incentive to go back to fx ulduar 25 so people can still farm Val'anyr. 

 

Sunwell Team: True though, loottables can't be overpowered. We don't want to quit raiding older content. Good point here.

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considering 232 cloaks are too op and breaks the game, m+ should award max 200 ilvl gear or no gear if you follow your logic.

 

Sunwell Team: Thank you for your opinion, it's fundamental to not destroy this balance you are saying. Indeed, high ilvl gear may harm the realm. We expect to create really huge loottables so gear from previous raids shall drop very rarely.

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Tbh give Legendary items is quite unfair to that people that make lot of time to get by their hands 

 

Sunwell Team: Only unobtainable legendary/GM items will be added to loottables like Ashbringer, Frostmourne etc. We won't add Thunderfury nor Sulfuras weapons to loot obviously.

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To be honest, I wouldn't mind fragments being obtainable from very high key levels. With toc/icc release barely anyone will want to do ulduar 25 and even now getting pugs that can get past kologarn is rare. Plus since high level keys are ment to be hard this way of getting the mace could be even harder than through ulduar but still give the possibility of getting it to those who are willing and able to do this content.

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About epic loot, is it gonna be spec/class related or totally random? Example: Will Mythic group - protpala, 3 mages and disc - be able to get drops like Grim Toll? Or maybe full melee group getting illustration?

Another suggestion - don't put previous patch's bis items on the loot table, like getting ilvl 239 ulduar items in ToC patch.

Edited by Empathy
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11 minutes ago, Funkytree said:

To be honest, I wouldn't mind fragments being obtainable from very high key levels. With toc/icc release barely anyone will want to do ulduar 25 and even now getting pugs that can get past kologarn is rare. Plus since high level keys are ment to be hard this way of getting the mace could be even harder than through ulduar but still give the possibility of getting it to those who are willing and able to do this content.

With ToC coming out Ulduar is going to be a lot easier due to the gear difference.

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I really like everything yall have done here!
I also like the idea of re-tuning old legacy raid gear for wotlk content, it would also serve a purpose of providing transmog rewards.
It would be cool if {mythic} versions of the heroic dungeon items dropped.
Some of the wotlk preraid bis items are pretty cool and could be buffed like how heroic items are buffed versions of their normal counterpart.

Looking forward to the M+ adventure, im sure it will be fun however it turns out.

Edited by stopskii
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Some suggestions:

- Priority of a player doing M+ shouldnt be gear but rather the challenge and the competition it offers. So imo it would be better for the loot to be transmog tokens, companions and mounts that are ONLY available in M+ . These items should be custom made and not for example Raven from Anzu. So M+ level 15 could flex and brag all they want without having people who farm these rare mounts feel sad.

- People who join M+ and progress in high levels should get a title / achievement. The higher the level the better the title. 5/10/15 levels = 3 total titles.

- Another idea about loot: Instead of bosses dropping loot, or instead of getting loot when you open the chest after finishing a dungeon, maybe there wont be loot at all (except Mythic Power). Every week the player will unlock a chest in their home city (or Dalaran) where he can find all that bonus loot. This reward loot will depend on how many dungeons you cleared through the week and the level of Mythic it was. I think this is better because you want players to slightly commit to this M+ project and play throughout the week instead of doing only 1-2..

- People shoulnt be able to kick other members, BUT they should be able to report them. A player getting too many reports in 24 hours from different players should be banned from M+ for some time/day(s).

- Adds in M+ should have stealth and invisibility detection!

- You cant finish an M+ dungeon if you dont kill ALL bosses (compared to RDF where you can skip some).

- Nitro boots are automatically deactivated once you enter a M+ dungeon, but you keep the stats it offers.

- Having equipped any item with resilience stat makes you deal 50% less damage.

- Some loot can include flasks / pots and items based on the players' professions. Perhaps some recipies from Naxx/Uld/ToC/ICC can be obtained depending on M+ difficulty.

- Reward players that performed better than others : Team 1 finished M+ in under 10 minutes (GOLD) = gets XX rewards. Team 2 finished M+ in under 10 minutes (GOLD) but they had 2 deaths in their run = gets YY rewards. That should affect the point system and rewards.

Thanks for making M+ , it will be FUN!

Edited by Domino
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You should add ulduar 25 items for rewards. I dont think it will kill doing older raids because;

- if you are capable of doing best runs mythic then you probably wont do ulduar 25 with pug runs anyways (usually guilds do their own runs for valanyr farm) the only things you may want from uld some specific great items (like comet's trail, flare of the heavens etc) and if you cant provide theese from mythic+ content and if you are not transmog fan. what drives you to bother first place?

- If you are indeed need to do uld25s you wont be able to get uld25 from mythic+ anyways, since its a time race even if you are an exeptional player still you probably wont make it on time due to lack of healing/dps (cause of low gear you have)

- same logic goes on other raids aswell (os naxx etc). If you are really need to get items from theese raids you cant be able to get those items from myt+ anyways. 

But...

This system entirely may damages older pug raids. Because strong ppl will may prefer to do mythic dungeons instead of pugging those raids.  

Sorry for gramar mistakes I'm not a native speaker ^^

Edited by desdanova
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19 minutes ago, desdanova said:

- if you are capable of doing best runs mythic then you probably wont do ulduar 25 with pug runs anyways (usually guilds do their own runs for valanyr farm) the only things you may want from uld some specific great items (like comet's trail, flare of the heavens etc) and if you cant provide theese from mythic+ content and if you are not transmog fan. what drives you to bother first place?

While true that you cant do M+ at great hardness when having low gear, what makes you think a bis geared player would enter M+ for items? Plus, i strongly believe that people's motivation on doing M+ isnt the gear at all. It's just being the best of the best. Competition and M+ ladder is what will make people push M+ levels. Not some 226 items.

Edited by Domino
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Hello, 

what do you think about creating custom gear, only obtainable and useable in M+ dungeons. For Example to start an adventure in M+ you need to have a gear on at least item level 200 (epics from last bosses of hc rdf). Then you obtain new pieces of gear as you progress from +1 to +15. The gear could be the same which drops from HC RDFS, but have it's own upgraded version to +X (increased stats, etc). Every boss could drop an amount of ,,mythic power", and  emblems depending on M+X, for example 13-15 would start droping emblems of triumph. Every ID reset, a player could open the chest in dalaran and check what he obtained according to the amount of accumulated mythic power during the week. I am not sure what kind of items would be the most suitable, but adding there only consumables/transmog tokens/transmog items will not be worth to spend a lot of time by many people. Maybe a low % chance for naxx/ulduar/toc trinekts<--(toc trinkets might be too much). I think, that if you give to every kind of players (PVP,PVE,Transmog)  a reason to progress M+ you will achieve a great interest. This is a simple idea only. 

Regards, 

Reyla

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1 hour ago, Domino said:

While true that you cant do M+ at great hardness when having low gear, what makes you think a bis geared player would enter M+ for items? Plus, i strongly believe that people's motivation on doing M+ isnt the gear at all. It's just being the best of the best. Competition and M+ ladder is what will make people push M+ levels. Not some 226 items.

Yes I would do. Many people will. I have 4.7 gs now but I'm still using HoL wrist. I still need comet's trail. Not that like the only reason to do it (I love transmog) but yea I will do it for items :) You don't usually become complete bis in a tier you need great luck for it. (which me and all of my friends consider me as a lucky person) that would be GREAT motivation for ppl to do.

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Quite an interesting idea. However, a person who has never played past Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK in retail and haven't played WoW in modern times will probably have a difficult time understanding the logic of that. Mythic seems fun? But I am kind of against having Ulduar loot for mythic dungeons because Ulduar is quite valuable and it will not feel as deserving if we just get free Ulduar loot from a 5 man. Also, have some disagreement with some TOC boosts. Shouldn't add NPCs or non-sense mechanics to TOGC 25. Just extra HP and harder hits would be sufficient like on Angrathar. 

Bottom Line - Just don't add older raiding contents to mythic dungeons especially Ulduar loot.

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I dont fear, that lower Tier Raids will be less visited by pugs (even less than today) but more, that your new Feature - the m+ Dungeons, wont be visited at all due to lack of interesting loot. In my opinion it should indeed give good items at high Keys, maybe even T9.5 Token f.e. when you get to a high one, so you stay motivated to do it. Otherwise it will die very soon and especially pugs wont do m+.

So the initial idea of givin ppl something cool, rewarding, fresh to do instead of boring togc and without "wasting" hours and days on pug raids, cannot work without powerful loot. It should not be the best overall, but it should drag ppl in there.

Other question: What about Server crashes? They will come, they will destroy groups, effort and motivation. You need to think this through, cause you will loose players, when their high key gets ripped by a crash. Maybe Timerstop till all 5 players are back or smth.

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That's a great feature, and I'll definitely be coming back for 3.2 on this server to test it with my friends.
Some suggestions, though:

- While the idea of having T3 as a reward for doing higher keys is somewhat decent - if I understood the post correctly, - you might want to spice it up a little bit. My suggestion is add NON-SET items from T3 into loot tables starting from Level 10. By non-set I mean weapons like Misplaced Servo-Arm and armor pieces like Icebane Helmet (imo Icebane set is the best transmog set in entire game (yes, retail included) to this day bar none) or Necro-Knight's Garb. And if you are going to add custom mounts, consider making a Yellow Swift Hawkstrider and a Sapphiron-type mount for something like completing all +15 in time as a prestige reward.

- Giving out past raid items as a reward for swift completion is also nice. However, consider scaling loot upwards for items. Obviously take the source into consideration - don't make upscaled 239 Forge Ember equal in power to Flare of the Heavens. That would give people options to grind for should they wish it, and add variety to selection of off-pieces. (Just don't make another Memento of Angrboda, thanks <3)

- Speaking of items - while that's not really a blizzlike feature, having M+-restricted consumables like reusable pots purchasable after a player successfully completes a certain Level M+ dungeon in time would be convenient for people who want to push.

- Ulduar should be really simple post-nerfs, so adding items from it shouldn't be that much of an issue. I suggest the following breakdown of item quality:

 1. Mythic 0..+3 - 200 item from a Heroic dungeon/Naxx 10/OS 10 +0..1

 2. Mythic +4..+6 - 213 item from Naxx 25/OS 25 +0..1/EoE 10/OS 10 +2 + scaled Heroic items

 3. Mythic +7..+9 - 219 item from Ulduar 10 Non-HM/ToC Heroic dungeon item + scaled Heroic items

 4. Mythic +10..+12 - 226 item from Ulduar 10 HM/EoE 25/OS 25 +2 + scaled Heroic items

 5. Mythic +13..+15 - 232 item from Ulduar 10 HM/Ulduar 25 Non-HM/ToC (Raid) Normal + scaled Heroic items

 6. Mythic +16..+18 - Previous one + permanent re-usable pot that only works in dungeons + a chance at 239 item from Ulduar 25 HM (don't make it too high for obvious reasons)

 7. Mythic +19 onwards - Previous one + a chance at 245 item from ToC 10 HM/ToC 25 Normal (don't make it too high for obvious reasons)

For the sake of balance introduce ToC drop items only after Realm First! Grand Crusader is attained by a guild.

- Don't introduce weekly loot chests since it's an extra layer of RNG that's not needed. If you are going to introduce weekly chests, let people pick the slot they want an item for, if that's possible (e.g. I cleared a Mythic 14 and I want a trinket, when I open chest I have a choice for 3 gear slots, e.g. bracers, cloak, trinket) to make RNG more controllable.

Best regards, Flare

3 hours ago, Nostaglicdude said:

Quite an interesting idea. However, a person who has never played past Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK in retail and haven't played WoW in modern times will probably have a difficult time understanding the logic of that. Mythic seems fun? But I am kind of against having Ulduar loot for mythic dungeons because Ulduar is quite valuable and it will not feel as deserving if we just get free Ulduar loot from a 5 man. Also, have some disagreement with some TOC boosts. Shouldn't add NPCs or non-sense mechanics to TOGC 25. Just extra HP and harder hits would be sufficient like on Angrathar. 

Bottom Line - Just don't add older raiding contents to mythic dungeons especially Ulduar loot.

To be utterly honest with you, Ulduar loot post-nerf is free. Even pugs are doing Algalon 25 now. The only issue for any remotely coordinated guild at this stage of the game is Yogg +0 (for pugs that are not an alt run of sorts it's obviously Firefighter 25), for good guilds farming all HMs is a non-issue. For people who actually push keys, doing content that's actually difficult and rewarding over undertuned raid should absolutely be an option if the feature is to be implemented.

Edited by Flarexd
Wanted to make a response that I forgot to include initially.
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