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MrCulé

The Final Announcement: Call of the Crusade season!

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KimmoKM    40
On 9/10/2018 at 1:44 PM, Badrng said:

The fact that a handful of guilds will be able to clear it in two weeks doesn't mean that the rest of the server will. It will probably take weeks or even months for the weaker guilds (and by that I mean the guilds that are still struggling with Ulduar hard modes) to progress through the "25% ToGC".

I know anecdotes of retail of guilds that finished TOGC25 with 50 attempts left, went back to Ulduar in ilvl258 gear AND HAD MORE TROUBLE FINISHING T8 (even excluding Yogg+0). Of course, there are factors like motivation with Ulduar gear being obsolete and all by then, but Blizzlike post-nerf Ulduar is substantially tougher than TOGC ever was, especially when it comes to execution rather than pure numbers.

 

Here we're not even comparing it to post-nerf Ulduar but one that still retains (or so I'm lead to believe) the PTR "pre-nerf" tuning, making the gap wider still.

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white0rabbit    17

Its too bad not a big part of community is active in forum discussions. I remember back on Kronos even, these kinda topics used to grow really big. (thanks discord)

Anyway, simply cause someone brought up Kronos and Naxx - yes it is true that overbuffing makes guilds quit, and we've seen it happen here on Sunwell alot. (But, simple reminder, Naxx there was last raid in content, people wanted it buffed, most guilds that had prev content on farm did full clear in matter of 3-4 weeks, and most importantly, server didnt die cause of overbuffed Naxx but due to 2x fresh vanilla servers + it was simply last raid in content and people that played vanilla back from feenix 5-6y ago finally finished the journey they started too long ago. Also, most guilds didnt quit until they formed at least 1 Atiesh, and some even lived long to get 2nd one).

But, back on topic - thanks Sunwell crew for not overbuffing TOGC, it is very true that this is just an "inbetween" raid and pugs need to be able to clear normal modes basically from start. If you think longshot, you need a stable and healthy community by the time ICC comes out, and closing whole content to pugs and casual guilds is just gonna scare those away. Guilds that clear uld25 atm, with some HMs, will definitely have it on farm in matter of weeks - if custom buffs were added it wouldnt add too much time to it imo, once you have a legit raiding community you can kill anything, just gotta hammer it a bit more.
Truth is, on a healthy server you always need to have a pool of people to recruit from, and you gotta keep that pool interested in the game. It sounds maybe a bit harsh but, long term thats the only way you can have a competitive ICC one day. (But i gotta agree with some prev comments ICC should come fairly "soon", 12-15 weeks after tops?)

We as a guild came a bit "late" to Sunwell, after there were a lot of guilds active and farming Naxx (and even EoE). We had to recruit exclusively with making Naxx pugs, spent 2-3 weeks until we had enough numbers to do Naxx as guild, and then 2-3 weeks more to clear. And it wasnt fun, some buffs were simply retarded (personally hated the armor stomp on tank the most, dont ever bring that back) but we survived that, survived the empty server summer and growing strong now. Truth is, there will always be such guilds around, and now during ToC, lots of guilds might evolve to recruit, raid and gear enough to compete in ICC - simply cause its not overbuffed and they will stand a chance.

This is just a point of view from one decently strong guild - and once more, thanks for nice TOGC announcment, you give us faith that the server will still be healthy and growing for ICC.

 

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zerfx    28

With custom buffs I ment something that's just not a flat percentage (as the guy was referencing ToGC won't have any custom buffs, unlike ulduar - which in this case is false, if you consider flat percentages a custom buff).

In retrospect, Ulduar was probably buffed too hard for the level of competition that exists here, especially Vezax. Requiring raid cooldown coordination is fine, but it probably should be something you can overcome with gear (Freya and pre-nerf Thorim), otherwise less coordinated guilds will never kill them. 

It makes no sense to have T8 be more difficult than T9. Character progression should be linear - you farm gear to move from tier to tier, not just jump into T9 normal modes and disregard Ulduar completely. In my opinion they should continue to nerf Ulduar over time and buff ToC/ToGC, same way blizzard did to some extent. Giving players everything they want is the easiest way to kill the game.

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Avarishd    56

Remember what the staff said when we were talking about naxxramas difficulty as well? "Cannot separate the casuals from the semi/hardcore raiding guilds in that raid due to the lack of HC difficulty or hardmotes like Ulduar". Ulduar was limited in that case because not all bosses have hardmode, but now you are not limited in any way. You can actually separate the Tier into 2 difficulties, for casual guilds and for semi/hardcore guilds.

Edited by Avarishd
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Graal    121

Hey everyone,

We have decided to boost ToGC 25 (Heroic) bosses a little and I'll explain why.

Ulduar was a raid where all Hard Mode bosses were really strong. The stats show that only a small percent of the players killed all Keepers in their Hard Mode versions. A lot of top guilds couldn't handle these boosts and either disbanded during progress or moments after Ulduar realm firsts. The exact reasons remain unknown to us, however the difficulty could be one of them.

We don't want to buff a raid up to the sky, so only a small percent of the players can experience that. Balanced ToGC boost should make the raid more accessible to less hardcore guilds and we'll live by these words. Boost isn't that low to allow pugs to kill as much as an organized guild, but it isn't so high that normal guilds can raid only Normal mode.

However, I've learned that players weren't quite satisfied of our decision, that the boost could be a little higher for the healthy competition. And as my heart is good&pure and I value opinions of the players, I've brought up this topic to the administration. I wanted to buff the raid slightly more but still making it accessible for less hardcore guilds.

We've decided to make four changes:

  • Lord Jaraxxus will use Touch of Jaraxxus spell;
  • Twin Val'kyr debuff will damage the whole raid, instead of single damage to the player with debuff;
  • Twin Val'kyr HP boost will be 35% (up from 25%);
  • Anub'arak and his spawns HP boost will be 35% (up from 25%).

I hope that you're more satisfied of the outcome and the raid will be fun and engaging. 
Kind regards

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Costin    6
1 hour ago, Graal said:

Hey everyone,

We have decided to boost ToGC 25 (Heroic) bosses a little and I'll explain why.

Ulduar was a raid where all Hard Mode bosses were really strong. The stats show that only a small percent of the players killed all Keepers in their Hard Mode versions. A lot of top guilds couldn't handle these boosts and either disbanded during progress or moments after Ulduar realm firsts. The exact reasons remain unknown to us, however the difficulty could be one of them.

We don't want to buff a raid up to the sky, so only a small percent of the players can experience that. Balanced ToGC boost should make the raid more accessible to less hardcore guilds and we'll live by these words. Boost isn't that low to allow pugs to kill as much as an organized guild, but it isn't so high that normal guilds can raid only Normal mode.

However, I've learned that players weren't quite satisfied of our decision, that the boost could be a little higher for the healthy competition. And as my heart is good&pure and I value opinions of the players, I've brought up this topic to the administration. I wanted to buff the raid slightly more but still making it accessible for less hardcore guilds.

As a member of guild who did clear a reasonable number of Hard Modes in 25 before nerf, a guild that died recently, I can easily say it was a major factor in burnout.

Specifically in how these bosses we're difficult. There's nothing wrong in having bosses have more HP given our increased damage from ICC talents, but the required class stacking requirments in particular on many of these encounters destroyed guilds, or the HP requirements for things like Freya/Thorim along with the necessity of having a good amount of raid damage reduction cooldowns made it a rather frustrating experience to have to deal with.

There's currently Four or Five guilds on the server currently if I am not mistaken that are capable of killing Algalon post-nerf, given all the guilds that have died how many do you reasonably expect to even be raiding ToGC in the first place? Not much of a competition really.

ToGC should only be buffed in HP to account for the increased DPS people are doing with current talents vs what they'd do with the ones they had on retail. The real challenge in this raid is to clear it with 50 attempts left anyway.

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zerfx    28

I like the idea of not buffing all bosses to the same level + valkyr debuff maybe will prevent patchwerk style tactics. Progression should feel like a ladder.

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Why WG Marks will be reseted? Never happened before. (Which will be reset: Arena Points, Honor, Wintergrasp Mark of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Wintergrasp Commendation and Commendation of Bravery.) Consider this sh**.

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Iamthedoll    22
7 hours ago, Pigmy said:

Why WG Marks will be reseted? Never happened before. (Which will be reset: Arena Points, Honor, Wintergrasp Mark of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Wintergrasp Commendation and Commendation of Bravery.) Consider this sh**.

Mabybe because there will be new high ilvl items available for WG marks? It would hurt the balance.

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Fizzla    33

Great now you guys are buffing it because the ~5 elite guilds want a larger challenge. Couldn't even keep to your original plan for more than 5 days. So you are catering to ~125 people over the rest of the server, how well did that work for you guys in Ulduar again? Oh yeah, it killed 20+ guilds. I don't think there's a single NA guild left that clears HMs now. So you hurt your own servers population BADLY by buffing the crap outta Ulduar,, and now you are buffing TogC which is a raid that apparently most people already dislike due to the repetition.

Great plan, it's like you want this server to die before reaching ICC. More custom scripting on a raid people already dislike + launching a TBC server is going to cripple Angrathar even more than the Ulduar disaster already has. Do I get to expect similar custom buffing on your TBC server? Let me know ahead of time so I can save us all a headache and wait for a different server.

So far I've been right on every single prediction I've made on this server, the ulduar custom buffed difficulty killing tons of guilds, people being forced to mega cheese 0 light with 9 locks because of custom scripting. It's like I've somehow gained this super power that's called LEARNING FROM HISTORY. Give it a try sometime.

 

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Badrng    6

Isn't it obvious at this point that their goal is to put out any activity on Angrathar in preparation for TBC? 

Angrathar is going to end up like Feronis did. 

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17 hours ago, Iamthedoll said:

Mabybe because there will be new high ilvl items available for WG marks? It would hurt the balance.

There are no items with ilvl like Relentles gear. So there is no unbalance. Legs from wg are the same like Furious legs, Ring from WG = Furious ring. SO NO, NO UNBALANCE

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Miroy    2
On 14.9.2018 at 8:31 PM, Graal said:

Balanced ToGC boost should make the raid more accessible to less hardcore guilds and we'll live by these words. Boost isn't that low to allow pugs to kill as much as an organized guild, but it isn't so high that normal guilds can raid only Normal mode.

 

I don't know what was wrong with the previous changes regarding only hp boosts. Twink Valkyr and especially Anuberak are 2 very hard boss fights who won't be cleared by PUGs even without any boosts. 

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Modred    13

If I can insert my two cents:

 

I am an NA raider, and I’ve been on sunwell since day 1 of Angrathar. I’m actually pretty sure I have realm first “going down!” (Check my Priest Mobane for evidence) To be honest with you Ulduar wasn’t as bad as people are making it out to be.

 

The guilds that died from Ulduar probably also had other factors effecting them (my previous guild for example died due to the guild leader and officers not being able to maintain one, and we were making Ulduar progress too.) My current guild is progressing through Ulduar right now and I can firmly say, the raid buffs aren’t to blame here.

 

At the end of the day people will whine, people will complain, but Sunwell is a vastly better server than Warmane because at least they listen. 

 

Also, why do people say there’s not any good NA guilds? We have like 4 decent ones on horde side alone, some of which are 9/9 HM.

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Avarishd    56
On 9/18/2018 at 12:22 AM, Fizzla said:

Great now you guys are buffing it because the ~5 elite guilds want a larger challenge. Couldn't even keep to your original plan for more than 5 days. So you are catering to ~125 people over the rest of the server, how well did that work for you guys in Ulduar again? Oh yeah, it killed 20+ guilds. I don't think there's a single NA guild left that clears HMs now. So you hurt your own servers population BADLY by buffing the crap outta Ulduar,, and now you are buffing TogC which is a raid that apparently most people already dislike due to the repetition.

Great plan, it's like you want this server to die before reaching ICC. More custom scripting on a raid people already dislike + launching a TBC server is going to cripple Angrathar even more than the Ulduar disaster already has. Do I get to expect similar custom buffing on your TBC server? Let me know ahead of time so I can save us all a headache and wait for a different server.

So far I've been right on every single prediction I've made on this server, the ulduar custom buffed difficulty killing tons of guilds, people being forced to mega cheese 0 light with 9 locks because of custom scripting. It's like I've somehow gained this super power that's called LEARNING FROM HISTORY. Give it a try sometime.

 

And people still comparing Ulduar with TOC yikes read the discussion before you post the same thing over and over, maybe you'll understand a thing or two.

Edited by Avarishd

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Fizzla    33
2 hours ago, Avarishd said:

And people still comparing Ulduar with TOC yikes read the discussion before you post the same thing over and over, maybe you'll understand a thing or two.

Am I really that crazy in just wanting a god damn blizzlike fight without custom horseshit to keep the wotlk diehards that are obviously bored with wrath amused? If you hate ToC so much then just don't clear it, don't get it custom changed just to keep your bored asses amused.

Its amazing how selfish the veteran wrath community is, demanding custom changes to keep yourselves amused at the cost of the majority of the server that just wants to clear unchanged content. Buffing HP to account for the increased dmg from talents sure, everything else screw you.

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Antik    90
On 9/10/2018 at 5:44 AM, Badrng said:

The fact that a handful of guilds will be able to clear it in two weeks doesn't mean that the rest of the server will. It will probably take weeks or even months for the weaker guilds (and by that I mean the guilds that are still struggling with Ulduar hard modes) to progress through the "25% ToGC". Hardcore guilds will always deal with whatever is thrown at them, but they make up only a fraction of the server's population. You cannot cater for the needs of the few by releasing a super buffed version of the content that was supposed to be filler in the first place. Tier 9 is a time for guilds to bolster their rosters in preparation for ICC, for people to do pug runs of ToC and perhaps even a few bosses in ToGC on five alts, not another ordeal to go through. I'm sure once we get ICC it will be properly tuned, but to overbuff ToGC would be a terrible, terrible idea that would make the server die a painful death. Overall a good decision on the server staff's part, but as I stressed, ICC needs to be released as soon as possible.

How is harder content only catering to few? Why can't the shitty guilds stop standing in fire?

It boggles my mind that people think they deserve to be handed content in a game they're not currently paying for. Video games were better when they were actually incredibly difficult on normal mode to beat. The slide down in difficulty for the terrible is ruining everything and should not be expected because you can't move from Icehowl's charge. You should be punished for that, and if the punishment is less content then that sucks for you but it's your fault.

 

e;

Additionally TOC is patch 3.2.0 we're on 3.3.5a. The difference in ALL classes and a raid's ability from 3.2.0 to 3.3.5a is astounding. If they left it on retail values, but we were at 3.3.5a it would be boring face-roll content.

 

On 9/10/2018 at 7:38 PM, zerfx said:

What custom buffs in ulduar? It's prenerf state with HP/damage buffs. The only bosses that had some "custom"  buffs I guess were mimiron (adds had some buff that was irrelevant) and yogg0 adds (more shadow beacons).

Snaplasher not working like release ulduar. What he should be doing if he were would be to not ONLY focus on his target/highest aggro but to 1shot anyone within range as he's kited. It forces the dynamic of a balanced raid.

 

On 9/11/2018 at 3:10 PM, Fizzla said:

and it screwed everyone that wasn't full mega tryhard.

>hurr durr I deserve easy mode everything!!!!

>I'm salty because you're better than me therefore you're a full mega tryhard I'm not just a bad.

You should probably say what's really on your mind.

On 9/14/2018 at 1:31 PM, Graal said:

Twin Val'kyr debuff will damage the whole raid, instead of single damage to the player with debuff;


No. It's fine if you modify a fight by boosing the Damage/HP of the boss or adds as they are, but to change a mechanic that was specifically balanced in a specific way just causes problems.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 4:22 PM, Fizzla said:

Oh yeah, it killed 20+ guilds. I don't think there's a single NA guild left that clears HMs now. So you hurt your own servers population BADLY by buffing the crap outta Ulduar,

You fucking cray A LOT.

No. People left because it was summer and due to BFA. I know of quite a few people who quit due to those reasons. Washed Up was 7/9 and quit before the keeper nerf (unbuff).

So your exaggerations to point out that you want free, faceroll content are neither helpful, nor honest.

 

2 hours ago, Fizzla said:

Am I really that crazy in just wanting a god damn blizzlike fight

Yes because you're on 3.3.5a, not 3.2.0. It's an insane difference and for you to expect your lowskill, casual, welfare wants to be catered to is ridiculous.

Edited by Antik
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Fizzla    33

And I know 4 guilds that died due to struggling on custom HMs, and other people here have echoed that sentiment. I'm fine with the HP buffs to compensate for the talents WHICH I SAID BEFORE, its the same damn you are complaining about that I'm complaining about lol. "Twin Val'kyr debuff will damage the whole raid, instead of single damage to the player with debuff; Jaraxxus will use Touch of Jaraxxus spell" which are both custom added mechanics, not HP buffs to compensate.

You mad bro? You were so mad you didn't even read my post lol. We actually agree on most of this.

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Avarishd    56
9 hours ago, Fizzla said:

And I know 4 guilds that died due to struggling on custom HMs, and other people here have echoed that sentiment. I'm fine with the HP buffs to compensate for the talents WHICH I SAID BEFORE, its the same damn you are complaining about that I'm complaining about lol. "Twin Val'kyr debuff will damage the whole raid, instead of single damage to the player with debuff; Jaraxxus will use Touch of Jaraxxus spell" which are both custom added mechanics, not HP buffs to compensate.

You mad bro? You were so mad you didn't even read my post lol. We actually agree on most of this.

You were trying to compare Ulduar with TOC in terms of difficulty which is a no no, also guilds die for many reasons not only a raid tier. Another also touch of jarangus isn't a custom spell it was in beta/ptr TOC the only change is on Twin Val'kyr as you mentioned but you have to keep in mind how trivial this fight actually is: stay at one place, never move, 3 guys soak orbs around you, get 100 stacks for empowerment , press lust, do stationary rotation without having to worry about anything, kill boss? I know most people are "casuals" on this server but if you are complaining about the difficulty of this tier on a 3.3.5 patch you should consider reading some guides. :P 

 

Edited by Avarishd

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nimeralos    68
On 9/9/2018 at 7:50 PM, MrCulé said:

Frozo the Renowned will sell Runed Orb for 4x Frozen Orb.

Why though?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=45087/runed-orb#comments:id=982836

In 3.3.3, a Gnome named "Frozo the Renowned" Will come to dalaran on his flying carpet, Camping himself at Dalaran Magus Commerce Exchange, Selling Runed Orbs for 4 Frozen Orbs each.

NONBLIZZLIKE FUNSERVER jk

Actually, it does sound like a decent decision to make him available earlier, in 3.2. But, just to confirm, are you knowingly "fixing Blizzard mistakes" by this?

Graal: It was edited while ago, we made mistake. He will be present with 3.3 content.

Edited by Graal

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Lumo    16

Seems pretty obvious (and sad) that Sunwell team wouldn't be that bothered if Angrathar dies for their new BC server to thrive Twinstar did same with Ares as they released Naxx 40 on Kronos and look how that ended up playing out, BC ends up being too hard for most and people will quit that also.
As someone running a guild on Angrathar gotta say it stings abit when you see Devs catering to 4-5 guilds to make content fun for them and impossible for the more casual player base and on top of that clearly being more interested in putting resources into a new server, thing is non-hardcore guilds will burn through TOC instantly and be hungry for TOGC and then get hit with a brick wall of custom buffs for Titan/Dreamstate type guilds that they can handle with class stacking but the average guild will just burn out from.

DMG and HP% buffs totally make sense but I worry what ICC HC is gonna look like if this clearly becoming a pattern for Sunwell based on the way Ulduar and now TOGC is handled I just pray population doesn't get too low from burnout cause it's already hard for recruiting for the non-hardcore guilds. 

Edited by Lumo
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Antik    90
On 9/21/2018 at 1:55 PM, nimeralos said:

Why though?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=45087/runed-orb#comments:id=982836

In 3.3.3, a Gnome named "Frozo the Renowned" Will come to dalaran on his flying carpet, Camping himself at Dalaran Magus Commerce Exchange, Selling Runed Orbs for 4 Frozen Orbs each.

NONBLIZZLIKE FUNSERVER jk

Actually, it does sound like a decent decision to make him available earlier, in 3.2. But, just to confirm, are you knowingly "fixing Blizzard mistakes" by this?

I disagree and think it's pretty garbage for them to release him earlier. I've had tickets by GMs answered stating he was being released with (during) ICC.

Graal: It was edited while ago, we made mistake. He will be present with 3.3 content.

Edited by Graal

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Antik    90
4 hours ago, Lumo said:

DMG and HP% buffs totally make sense

I agree with this fully. I question the post above that, but at this point I think only damage/HP/healing mechanics should be changed. I've outlined numerous times in the past why. I don't think ICC should receive anything but small boosts as the content will finally match the patch (3.3.5a) it was balanced for. 

Edited by Antik

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Avarishd    56
5 hours ago, Lumo said:

hit with a brick wall of custom buffs for Titan/Dreamstate type guilds that they can handle with class stacking

Class stacking? We are not PI, they left sometime ago. As for the "buffs" I can assure you that even the "non-hardcore" guilds will be burned out throughout TOGC unless the raid receives the needed buffs. As people mentioned above the difference between 3.2 and 3.3.5 talents is huge in terms of dps/hps output. You have to keep in mind we play on a progressive server and as our GM said few posts ago progression must feel like a ladder, with each step the the difficulty to overcome the steps becomes greater and greater, in other words difficulty should increase not decrease, the case with TOGC. Where do you think the meme "Farm TOGC -> Progress Ulduar Hms" came from, there was a reason that that meme was born and all posts including this one pretty much sum it up. Hopefully the server doesn't suffer too much of the "difficulty" of Tier 9.

P.S As for people wondering how Lordaeron stayed active and alive up until mid ICC HC, there is your answer: (people striving to achieve greater difficulty of content never seen before, this is why the server was such success, no other private server on LK provided this type of difficulty)
YlAJQnL.png

Nobody is asking for such buffs, this is just a quick comparison between Lordaeron and Retail values for good measure. :P

Best Regards

- Avarishd

 

 

Edited by Avarishd
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