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Saniig    0

Hello everyone. I have experienced a ninja looting situation with the guild Demons of Chaos. I will try to explain in detail what happened.

Last sunday (26th of July) I joined a TOC25 run with my feral druid. Since the release of TOC I have been hoping for the Archon Glaive to drop from Anub'arak and as a matter of fact I have seen it drop 3 times.
The first 2 times it dropped I just had bad luck and couldnt win the roll from others. Very unfortunate, but that is how it works. This time though, I got screwed by the guild Demons of Chaos.

Before we started the raid leader/masterlooter (Bobiks - Protection paladin) announced that he would be rolling for dps gear. Fair enough, they told everyone before we started so no complaints about that.

So when we killed Anub'arak I was happy to see that the polearm dropped again! There were 2 hunters in the raid and 1 of them already had the polearm, so I had high hopes this time. Even though this polearm is not a good weapon for DK's, the 2 DK's that were in the raid also rolled for it. Alright, I mean if it is an upgrade I would not consider this as ninja looting if a DK would win this weapon. What happened next is that I won the roll over the hunter and the 2 DK's but then the masterlooter/raidleader also rolled for it and won the roll from me. As mentioned before the raidleader would be rolling for dps gear. Even though this is also a bad weapon for retri paladins, if it would be an upgrade for him, and he would actually be wearing it HIMSELF, then there would be no reason for me to report him. The problem here is that he gave this weapon to his guild member that lost the roll against me. See screenshots below:


In this screenshot you can see the actual rolls for the Archon Glaive. Whiteley and Blasstbass are the DK's and Zts is the hunter. I win over them with 80 and then Bobiks rolled and took the item.
WoWScrnShot_072620_210610.thumb.jpg.44b9ffc0a40dc5c4499a82eb53d57515.jpg


In this screenshot you can see that Bobiks recieved the item. (Just for your information, I was inspecting the DK here to see if he already equiped it, but he has the 232 polearm equiped from 10man)

WoWScrnShot_072620_210626.thumb.jpg.00db93c777c12c3622b937f1c517aeb1.jpg


Right after Bobiks took the polearm he logged off and so did the other guys (except Blastbass, he was doing arena's after the raid)

I decided to add all 4 of them to my friend list to see when they would be online so I could see who finally equiped the polearm. I havnt had any success spotting them online for the next few days.
I also checked on armory to see if any of them would have equiped it. After a couple of days I can say I got proof the polearm was actually traded to the hunter Zts. I have a screenshot of his armory on the 26th of July and a screenshot from today the 31st of July.


Screenshot from his armory on 26th of July
Polearm.thumb.PNG.09c5928fe809ca9eafbd9f4488e10a00.PNG


Screenshot from his armory today the 31st of July

895305886_ArchonGlaive.thumb.PNG.c1a9ab99c3c8bd662d02e8d7ae4f99ea.PNG


Unfortunately I wasnt able to mouse over the weapon to show the tooltip while making the snap. But you can see that he has the ulduar weapon on the 26th, and now you can see his armory for yourself.


Final but not least. There is a small chance that Zts already did a new run this reset and got lucky by winning it during these last 3 days, but I highly doubt that.

Thank you for reading through this and I hope it is as obvious and clear to others than it is to me.

Have fun playing everyone, and please don't ninja loot!

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amed80    23

@Saniig was that weapon an upgrade for the paladin (RL that won the roll) in his Ret spec ? if yes , sorry but i think he can do what ever he want with it , sell for another person trade it or even disenchant it ... sometimes i loss a roll and ask the other person who won it if he can sell me the item , if he accepted , would you consider that ninjalooting ? i don't think so ... as long the item is an UPGRADE for that person i don't see any problem with that .

and try to follow the correct form when making a report :)

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Saniig    0
12 hours ago, amed80 said:

@Saniig was that weapon an upgrade for the paladin (RL that won the roll) in his Ret spec ? if yes , sorry but i think he can do what ever he want with it , sell for another person trade it or even disenchant it ... sometimes i loss a roll and ask the other person who won it if he can sell me the item , if he accepted , would you consider that ninjalooting ? i don't think so ... as long the item is an UPGRADE for that person i don't see any problem with that .

and try to follow the correct form when making a report :)

I think your view on this is totally wrong. Your basically saying that I can make a pug group with guild members of mine and then roll for an item someone from my guild needs, so that I can give it to that guild member of mine who lost the roll from one of the pugs?

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Stilnox    3
1 hour ago, Saniig said:

I think your view on this is totally wrong. Your basically saying that I can make a pug group with guild members of mine and then roll for an item someone from my guild needs, so that I can give it to that guild member of mine who lost the roll from one of the pugs?

Exactly, a lot of people/guilds do that on pug raids,  as amed said, noone cares what u will do with item if u won the roll, u can sell it to someone, trade it to friend, disenchant. 

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amed80    23

@Saniig as long the players who roll for the item is eligible for the roll (MS and Upgrade) you can't stop them ... 

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Saniig    0

To be honest, your opinions on this are irrelevant to me. You can't tell me it is not prohibited to funnel gear to your guild members when there are pugs rolling on the item. If he would use it himself, as I stated in my report, then of course I wouldn't report him. But he simply did not use the item himself, he did not sell it and neither disenchanted it. I havn't even seen his retribution gear, he might even have a better weapon for his retri spec, how do you know it would've been an upgrade for him?

Your reactions imply that I'm allowed to set up a pug group with some guild members of mine who then equip some random weapon so they can roll on my gear and pass it to me if they win it over someone that I invited through global. That is a perfect example of collective ninja looting don't you think?

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Stilnox    3
2 hours ago, Saniig said:

Your reactions imply that I'm allowed to set up a pug group with some guild members of mine who then equip some random weapon so they can roll on my gear and pass it to me if they win it over someone that I invited through global. That is a perfect example of collective ninja looting don't you think?

Because u are allowed to do that, that's how it works. 

U can check what Coffeblack, the GM said: 

"PvP items should be treated as "class roll" in VoA. It's unfortunate that they were probably trying to extort gold from you, however if they won the roll then it's theirs to do with what they please. So this is not considered ninjalooting as it is not against the rules. You can also choose not to raid with this person if you know they will act this way. Hope this helps for next time. Sorry again."

 

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Saniig    0

There is still a big difference beteween PvP items in VoA that are indeed class rolled, and the weapon from Anub'arak that has been taken by a guild member who happened to be the master looter, and then gave it to his guild member who lost the roll from me. I'd like to see a GM's opinion on this, and not yours to be honest.

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Stilnox    3

There is literally no difference, he won the roll = it's his decision if he wants to keep this item or give it to someone, doesn't matter if it's pvp item from voa or some weapon from toc.

And I'm pretty sure that 1st part of this sentence was about pvp items from voa but 2nd about items overall.

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Saniig    0

What are you even trying to proof? Ninja looting is prohibited because it is unfair towards other players. This is not different. I got a feeling you are just a guild member of them and that you are trying to proof me I am wrong. Just don't reply anymore please, thank you.

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Stilnox    3

I'm trying to proof that u are wrong and administration won't do anything with that. Ninjalooting is not giving an item to player which won the roll, he won the roll = he got the item /close.

Yeah, if u have more than 30iq u can just check my name on armory and see I'm not even in alliance xd

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