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MrCulé

The Final Announcement: Call of the Crusade season!

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MrCulé    170

In this thread I'd like to summarize all the changes that are going live by 29.09 - which marks the launch of 3.2 patch on Angrathar.

Most of 3.2 patch changes are already live due to the fact that our realm is technically on 3.3.5a patch, so all the changes regarding spells, talents, battlegrounds, arenas are already active.

Trial of the Crusader as well as Trial of the Champion will be released on 29th September at 6 P.M (CEST). Vault of Archavon will be reset on 29th September and closed to 18:00 due to implementing the new boss.

Ending of Furious Gladiator season is scheduled at 28.09, 22:00 Realm Time after the additional arena flush. All rankings from all brackets will be snapshotted and summarizing the season will take place after looking through the data which may take up to 2 weeks. PvP season ending will be taken to another forum thread.

General

Raids and Dungeons

  • Ulduar stays in its pre-nerf version without any custom boosts.
  • Trial of the Crusader / Trial of the Grand Crusader will yield Emblems of Triumph, 3x per boss.
  • All raids and dungeons which yielded Emblems of Heroism or Emblems of Valor (all dungeons, Naxxramas, Obsidian Sanctum, Eye of Eternity, etc) will yield Emblem of Conquest in the same quantity as previous emblems.
  • The award for completing daily heroic quest (boss): 2x Emblem of Triumph. Daily quest for dungeon trash: 1x Emblem of Conquest.

Items

PvP

  • Knight Dameron and Stone Guard Mukar will sell 232iLvl legs for 40x Wintergrasp Mark of Honor and rings and wrists (226 iLvl) for 15x Wintergrasp Mark of Honor.

Argent Tournament Grounds

Boosted ToC 25 HC

Lots of people were unhappy with boosts on Ulduar so we've decided to don't change too many things in this raid, only thing that is boosted is HP (by 25% for Northern Beasts and Lord Jaraxxus encounters, 15% for Faction Champions encounter and 35% for Twin of the Val'kyr and Anub'arak encounters).

Spoiler

Creature: Normal HP -> Boosted HP

 

Gormok the Impaler: 11,9m -> 14,816m

Snobold Vassal: 809k -> 1,011m

Acidmaw: 6,693m -> 8,37m

Dreadscale: 6,693m -> 8,37m

Icehowl: 18,128m -> 22,66m

Lord Jaraxxus: 26,5m -> 33,125m

Mistress of Pain: 943k -> 1,179m

Felflame Infernal: 310k -> 387,5k

Nether Portal: 806k -> 1,007m

Infernal Volcano: 806k -> 1,008m

Warlock: 2,86m -> 3,289m

Priest Discipline: 2,86m > 3,289m

Priest Shadow: 2,86m -> 3,289m

Druid Balance: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Druid Restoration: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Paladin Holy: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Paladin Retribution: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Hunter: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Shaman Enhancement: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Shaman Restoration: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Warrior: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Death Knight: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Mage: 2,86m -> 3,289m

Rogue: 3,57m -> 4,106m

Cat: 693k -> 866k

Zhaagrym: 693k -> 866k

Fjola Lightbane: 39m -> 52,65m

Eydis Darkbane: 39m -> 52,65m

Swarm Scarab : ~140k -> ~189k

Nerubian Burrower: 728k -> 983k

Anub'arak: 27,2m -> 36,72m

EDIT: 

We’ve decided to make four changes:

  • Lord Jaraxxus will use Touch of Jaraxxus spell;
  • Twin Val’kyr debuff will damage the whole raid, instead of single damage to the player with debuff;
  • Twin Val’kyr HP boost will be 35% (up from 25%);
  • Anub’arak and his spawns HP boost will be 35% (up from 25%).

Resets

  • Which will be reset: Arena Points, Honor, Wintergrasp Mark of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Wintergrasp Commendation and Commendation of Bravery.
  • Which will NOT be reset: Champion Seals, Emblems, Dalaran Jewelcrafter's Tokens, Dalaran Cooking Awards.
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Avarishd    31

Lots of people were unhappy with boosts on Ulduar so we've decided to don't change too many things in this raid, only thing that is boosted is HP  yikes

10hc gives better gear than 25m hc for some classes, it will be cleared in first week,

25hc will be cleared on 2nd week and people will wait for ICC yikes 2x

25% what a joke, togc 25 puggable on 2nd week with that pug going most likely 5/5 if tanks more than 25IQ

 

hopefully i am wrong but i doubt it

 

 

ALGALON 25M MORE HP THAN JARAXUS 25HC :OMEGALUL:

Edited by Avarishd
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MrCulé    170
54 minutes ago, Fouiny said:

And about Onyxia ? cool trailer btw

 

3-4 weeks after releasing Call of the Crusade season. 

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KimmoKM    34
1 hour ago, Avarishd said:

25% what a joke, togc 25 puggable on 2nd week with that pug going most likely 5/5 if tanks more than 25IQ

To be fair, TOGC25 being substantially easier than Ulduar, even when both are done with TOC25 gear, is Blizzlike.

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Antik    32
4 hours ago, Avarishd said:

Lots of people were unhappy with boosts on Ulduar so we've decided to don't change too many things in this raid, only thing that is boosted is HP  yikes

10hc gives better gear than 25m hc for some classes, it will be cleared in first week,

25hc will be cleared on 2nd week and people will wait for ICC yikes 2x

25% what a joke, togc 25 puggable on 2nd week with that pug going most likely 5/5 if tanks more than 25IQ

 

hopefully i am wrong but i doubt it

 

 

ALGALON 25M MORE HP THAN JARAXUS 25HC :OMEGALUL:

You seem not to be able to understand that TOGC was simply meant as filler content. This is why it is only 5 bosses with minimal mechanics.  Also I don't understand why the final special HM (equal to Heroic) boss having more HP than the second boss of a half a tier upgrade means anything at all worthy of mockery.

Wasn't Ulduar cleared in 3 weeks and algalon (25) killed in 4? Also I'm incredibly dubious of 25heroic being cleared in a true pug. I've never seen it done on any private I've been on.

As for 10hc gear being better than 25hc gear. You must not have played Vanilla as that isn't rare then for incredibly easy gear to get being even BIS. Ever hear of Krol Blade? Or that crafted cloth hat with 2% crit before rating was introduced? or anything with crit % before rating was introduced.

You just seem to not have the capacity and knowledge to understand that which you criticize.

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Avarishd    31
1 hour ago, Antik said:

You seem not to be able to understand that TOGC was simply meant as filler content. This is why it is only 5 bosses with minimal mechanics.  Also I don't understand why the final special HM (equal to Heroic) boss having more HP than the second boss of a half a tier upgrade means anything at all worthy of mockery.

Wasn't Ulduar cleared in 3 weeks and algalon (25) killed in 4? Also I'm incredibly dubious of 25heroic being cleared in a true pug. I've never seen it done on any private I've been on.

As for 10hc gear being better than 25hc gear. You must not have played Vanilla as that isn't rare then for incredibly easy gear to get being even BIS. Ever hear of Krol Blade? Or that crafted cloth hat with 2% crit before rating was introduced? or anything with crit % before rating was introduced.

You just seem to not have the capacity and knowledge to understand that which you criticize.

:OMEGALUL: 25% knowledge to understand that which you criticize I only understand 25% of it 

A filler raid that is supposed to last 2 to 3 months, what are you going to do when you achieve the hardest difficulty of the  tier in a matter of a week or two since the release? Farm all the same 5, boring, no mechanic bosses for 3 months? Don't talk out of your ass when you don't know anything about "difficulty" of raids.

Edited by Avarishd
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Pigmy    1

Which will be reset: Arena Points, Honor, Wintergrasp Mark of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Wintergrasp Commendation and Commendation of Bravery. +

Why WG Marks will be reseted? Never happened before.

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Badrng    6

I'm glad you decided against introducing bullshit custom changes to ToGC that only serve to alienate 90% of the community and are actually fun to maybe one or two guilds on the entire realm. Still, I do believe that with ToGC being pretty easy, the release of the next content needs to be much quicker than it was in the case of Ulduar. There are many other servers coming and ToGC is too poor of a raid to keep players hooked on Sunwell for months to come. 

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Avarishd    31
1 hour ago, Badrng said:

I'm glad you decided against introducing bullshit custom changes to ToGC that only serve to alienate 90% of the community and are actually fun to maybe one or two guilds on the entire realm. Still, I do believe that with ToGC being pretty easy, the release of the next content needs to be much quicker than it was in the case of Ulduar. There are many other servers coming and ToGC is too poor of a raid to keep players hooked on Sunwell for months to come. 

People came here with the promise of "what if naxx was hard" 25% hp buff is a joke, gundrak 5hc is harder than that "25% buff" What u gonna do when u clear this shit raid in a week or two on hc/50 attempts left? Do it over and over for 2 months + pls

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Badrng    6

The fact that a handful of guilds will be able to clear it in two weeks doesn't mean that the rest of the server will. It will probably take weeks or even months for the weaker guilds (and by that I mean the guilds that are still struggling with Ulduar hard modes) to progress through the "25% ToGC". Hardcore guilds will always deal with whatever is thrown at them, but they make up only a fraction of the server's population. You cannot cater for the needs of the few by releasing a super buffed version of the content that was supposed to be filler in the first place. Tier 9 is a time for guilds to bolster their rosters in preparation for ICC, for people to do pug runs of ToC and perhaps even a few bosses in ToGC on five alts, not another ordeal to go through. I'm sure once we get ICC it will be properly tuned, but to overbuff ToGC would be a terrible, terrible idea that would make the server die a painful death. Overall a good decision on the server staff's part, but as I stressed, ICC needs to be released as soon as possible.

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Avarishd    31
28 minutes ago, Badrng said:

The fact that a handful of guilds will be able to clear it in two weeks doesn't mean that the rest of the server will. It will probably take weeks or even months for the weaker guilds (and by that I mean the guilds that are still struggling with Ulduar hard modes) to progress through the "25% ToGC". Hardcore guilds will always deal with whatever is thrown at them, but they make up only a fraction of the server's population. You cannot cater for the needs of the few by releasing a super buffed version of the content that was supposed to be filler in the first place. Tier 9 is a time for guilds to bolster their rosters in preparation for ICC, for people to do pug runs of ToC and perhaps even a few bosses in ToGC on five alts, not another ordeal to go through. I'm sure once we get ICC it will be properly tuned, but to overbuff ToGC would be a terrible, terrible idea that would make the server die a painful death. Overall a good decision on the server staff's part, but as I stressed, ICC needs to be released as soon as possible.

You still don't realize its not about how much its buffed, its about what is buffed only hp to a raid that even the "still progressing ulduar 25hms guilds" can do in a matter of a week or two there is a reason why this raid and RS were considered filler raids because of their difficulty. TOGC lasts from August 4 to December 8 when the first wing of ICC is being released you can make the math why 25% is a joke to such type of a raid and please stop saying "handful of guilds" even the most incompetent 2 left handed player can clear togc.

 

ICC properly tuned? Doubt it my guess is is they will buff hp by 26% 

Off topic You can safely say that 10-15% of the people will leave if togc is the joke that it seems like it will be. including me

Edited by Avarishd

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Badrng    6

And there I was thinking you were trying to have a legitimate discussion. Instead, you're just flexing your e-muscles in hopes of showing off your superiority in a 10-year-old game. 

 

Quote

 including me

So long! 

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zerfx    21

There's a reason blizzard implemented multiple difficulties in game - heroic is supposed to be hard, it's not ment for clickers and keyboardturners.

We can probably agree that nobody likes ToC anyway, so what if we have super short T9 then, once 5-6 guilds farm 25hc, release ICC (and buff it properly, as it's the last relevant tier).

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Avarishd    31
4 hours ago, Badrng said:

And there I was thinking you were trying to have a legitimate discussion. Instead, you're just flexing your e-muscles in hopes of showing off your superiority in a 10-year-old game. 

 

So long! 

Go wipe on Kologarn 10m at least u'll get the chance to kill Anub 10/25 hc since it will be easier than Kologarn for you.

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Antik    32
On 9/10/2018 at 5:29 AM, Avarishd said:

People came here with the promise of "what if naxx was hard" 25% hp buff is a joke, gundrak 5hc is harder than that "25% buff" What u gonna do when u clear this shit raid in a week or two on hc/50 attempts left? Do it over and over for 2 months + pls

How many guilds have immortal with the buff? Oh yeah; 0. * edit * meant to say with the buff active. a few have it after it was brought back to retail

There isn't much more a private server dev can do besides buff damage output and HP. They can mess with timers but that throws class balance off incredibly for the fights and is difficult to balance.

So what did you expect? Did you expect completely new, modeled, and animated effects on fights?

 

Honestly people expecting more than damage/health increase on bosses with a few timing changes are deluded. If they aren't smart enough to understand what can and can't be done that doesn't mean the devs are bad or negligent or lying or misleading. I think Sunwell has done a great job. I think TOGC is coming out months too early after Ulduar, but that's not a balance issue.

 

But as is health and damage buffs are most appropriate as we're on 3.3.5a abilities/spells not 3.1.0 and 3.3.5a was a HUGE buff to DPS/healing/survivability.

Edited by Antik
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Iamthedoll    6
1 hour ago, Antik said:

There isn't much more a private server dev can do besides buff damage output and HP. They can mess with timers but that throws class balance off incredibly for the fights and is difficult to balance.

So what did you expect? Did you expect completely new, modeled, and animated effects on fights?

Just three words:

Old Scarlet Monastery

:wink: :wink:

Just can't stand waiting up to Christmas for it...

Cheers @Riztazz@Graal :)

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Avarishd    31
1 hour ago, Antik said:

How many guilds have immortal with the buff? Oh yeah; 0.

There isn't much more a private server dev can do besides buff damage output and HP. They can mess with timers but that throws class balance off incredibly for the fights and is difficult to balance.

So what did you expect? Did you expect completely new, modeled, and animated effects on fights?

 

Honestly people expecting more than damage/health increase on bosses with a few timing changes are deluded. If they aren't smart enough to understand what can and can't be done that doesn't mean the devs are bad or negligent or lying or misleading. I think Sunwell has done a great job. I think TOGC is coming out months too early after Ulduar, but that's not a balance issue.

 

But as is health and damage buffs are most appropriate as we're on 3.3.5a abilities/spells not 3.1.0 and 3.3.5a was a HUGE buff to DPS/healing/survivability.

How is immortal even  compared to TOGC, yes both raids are 0 mechanics but is completely irrelevant Nobody has asked for "custom changes"

increase hp/dmg done thats it boosting 25% hp on a target dummy doesn't really add up to anything.

In the end it won't really matter as long as TOGC doesn't last more than a month. If it does you will definitively see decrease in population of the server due to the simple reason people will be bored of doing a 25man dungeon, not a raid.

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Fizzla    26

Sounds like you guys just don't like TOGC, tough shit. Not all of us have cleared WOTLK a million times and want the devs to completely remake the encounters to serve our needs. Thanks for not adding a bunch of custom buffs like you did with Ulduar, my guild is greatly looking forward to TOGC with around 8 of us never having stepped foot into the raid.

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zerfx    21

What custom buffs in ulduar? It's prenerf state with HP/damage buffs. The only bosses that had some "custom"  buffs I guess were mimiron (adds had some buff that was irrelevant) and yogg0 adds (more shadow beacons).

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Draklian    2
2 hours ago, zerfx said:

What custom buffs in ulduar? It's prenerf state with HP/damage buffs. The only bosses that had some "custom"  buffs I guess were mimiron (adds had some buff that was irrelevant) and yogg0 adds (more shadow beacons).

Yogg had a ton of custom buffs, most of the keeper buffs/debuffs were custom.

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Butadiene    1

People just forget, almost 10 years behind, since Wotlk raids has been released.
Skill cap has increased a lot, nowdays people know how to play their class, they know their bis lists, othwewise everyone can google tons of info.
In 2008-10 95% overall players played a way worse, then typicial casual 3.3.5 player now. That's why prenerf ulduar has been lasted so short, because 90% guilds were barely progressing even through normals.
Plus, in that times, a lot of people has terrible connection, btw 10-15 fps on algalon was extremly good.
I still remember how we were struggling togc50 and we couldnt do it simply because tank or somebody else disconnected or just game freeze due to bad pcs.

So, now majority players are more skilled... like a way more skilled, people has good pcs and good internet, but the content is going to be almost the same.
I expect "LFM togc25 going to full need all 4.7k+ DEATH CHOISE RES" in a global chat like literally in a month. Be sure, even super casual guilds will progress through togc.
My mind, that its not good, since we are playing progressive server, which (for me) means to progress and struggle to content.

I like how sunwell guys made t7 content, eoe25 was really good fight, ulduar is good as well, but just few hp togc buff will make it super casual raid.
Peace.

Edited by Butadiene
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Iamthedoll    6
1 hour ago, Butadiene said:

I like how sunwell guys made t7 content, eoe25 was really good fight, ulduar is good as well, but just few hp togc buff will make it super casual raid.
Peace.

And how many people did that buffed u25 and eoe25 with PUGs? Noone or nearly noone I guess.

This server consists of (just my approximation) >70% casual players, ~10-15% pvp players and others, maybe a hundred or two hardcore PvE players. Do you really think that making those 150 people happy with overbuffing and let's say 2500 others unhappy is going to end well? They did so on Feronis, where people just quit playing because raids were too hard (on 10 year expansion lel). As someone mentioned - normals should be untouched so the PUGs and casual players can get gear,  HC's however should be buffed.

Personally I think that only hp buff is not a big deal. However revamping some spells (only on HC's) could make a difference.

Shorter berserk timer on Beasts? Additional adds on Jaraxxus? Reduced timers on Champions? Debuff's hitting whole raid instead of only person having those on valkyr's? Anub's leeching swarm healing increase/ Freezing slash dmg increase? Well, surely all of this would need testing - and we don't have much time for this. This is neither Lordaeron nor Feronis. Still maybe, just maybe, custom spell buffs on 25hc should be added? @Graal@MrCulé

Cheers!

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KimmoKM    34
15 hours ago, Draklian said:

Yogg had a ton of custom buffs, most of the keeper buffs/debuffs were custom.

17 hours ago, zerfx said:

What custom buffs in ulduar? It's prenerf state with HP/damage buffs. The only bosses that had some "custom"  buffs I guess were mimiron (adds had some buff that was irrelevant) and yogg0 adds (more shadow beacons).

Many of the custom changes were rather inconsequential, like Emergency Mode on Mimiron going from +30% HP+damage on Mimiron to +40%/35% HP/damage, now also affecting the P3 adds. Some of the bosses had custom buffs on the extreme side of things, like XT-002 Heartbreaker health buff going from +50% HP to +220%, but the toughest encounters would have maintained that status even with all custom changes reverted. The thing is, "pre-nerf" here meant PTR versions that never saw live servers, and often these things were changed for a reason. Say, PTR values for tree buffs pushing unavoidable damage on Freya past the threshold of most HP pools, necessitating paladin stacking for raid sacs and even that wasn't quite enough to stop people from getting sniped.

At the end of the day Ulduar turned out not to be a disaster, but it wasn't too far off. The difficulty gap between the Keepers and everything else, as well as Mimiron/Freya to Hodir/Thorim, was enormous. Yogg+1, the hard mode of the end boss, was arguably the easiest hardmode besides Flame Leviathan (It's "supposed" to be easier than the likes of Firefighter, but not the easiest of the lot). Freya, a boss that wasn't known for her difficulty in retail, was the hardest fight in the tier and is complete bullshit with RNG snipes (and her original state with 12s shrooms was outrageously horrible). Vezax necessitated an unhealthy degree of class stacking but is still easy if you have the right comp, and while we're on topic of raid setups, Yogg+0 hardly needs mentioning (although, at the end of the day it's a prestige achievement rather than "real content" so whatever).

Honestly, "pre-nerf" is a bit of a meme. What's more important is to

  1. maintain a satisfying difficulty progression between encounters
  2. provide a suitable level of challenge for high-end guilds while still keeping the bosses within reach of mid-end guilds (capable casuals, uninspired tryhards and well-led unremarkables) through indirect nerfs from gear
  3. preserve the identity of encounters, both in terms of their reputation and how the encounters can be completed in practice

Sunwell didn't do too well in terms of point number one. In regards to the second one, some of the higher-end guilds didn't even attempt a number of them for the longest while (not without justification, considering what happened to the old #2 progressed guild), and without changes they would have been forever out of reach for most of the players. Finally, while Sunwell Ulduar is good at allowing you to play encounters straight instead of using unblizzlike exploits, the difficulty curve of the raid is screwed up and some encounters require min/maxing to an extreme degree not seen in the retail days.

Indeed, I think "being Blizzlike" would be better understood as preserving the identity of content, rather than fighting a losing battle of getting the numbers right when they are wrong by default, thanks to the patch difference in mechanics. And then there are places where you don't want to be Blizzlike in any sense because Blizzlike is just garbage, like the tuning on T7 and T9. Sartharion aside, I think T7 actually was really nicely tuned. Had Naxx and EoE been available from the start instead of giving everyone time to go for pre-raid BiS, even top-end guilds would have spent a while progressing (original Malygos probably would have gone down quickly, thanks to slow P1 making the fight easier, but the fixed version likely would have survived more than one reset), and for the most part it actually made you care about mechanics that are often ignored even in Naxxes with numerically more extreme buffs.

T9, I think, would be best served by similar treatment, even changing mechanics a bit, similar to Malygos and some of the Naxx bosses. What you have to realize is that TOC is OUTRAGEOUSLY TRIVIAL. Numerically,  the normal mode could unironically be likened to Naxx, and even in TOGC very few mechanics are impactful enough to matter. Health buff doesn't do anything at all to fix that issue and only serves to makes the difficulty, such as it is, more about min/maxing the numbers rather than doing the mechanics properly.

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Fizzla    26

How many guilds died during Ulduar? At least NA got absolutely wrecked, I saw ~5 NA guilds die on alliance side including my own and that was just the guilds I knew people in. Many of them died while struggling on the buffed HMs. Buffing content to suit just the top 10% of raiders has backfired on servers population every single time. I saw it on Kronos with a buffed Naxx that decimated the server especially horde side, we went through the same thing now with that buffed ulduar and also EoE. You say buffed EoE25 was ok? How many guilds died because they didn't have enough warlocks and mages to cheese the vortex in order to beat that stupid enrage timer? It was horrible and that's coming from a guy whos guild held the speed kill record on that boss before it was nerfed.

How many guilds even cleared the 4 keepers HMs before it was nerfed? 8ish? That's a complete failure of balancing and it screwed everyone that wasn't full mega tryhard. FF was overtuned so badly that even guilds with tons of WOTLK experience that raid 5+ days a week still took hundreds of attempts to kill it.

 

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