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Xemni

Assassination Rogue LITE Guide

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Xemni    6

Hello, my name is Xemni, and I've been playing rogue for quite some time now (about 10 or so years). I intended to type this up initially and send it to a friend whom requested information on how to play the class, but seeing as I've seen a few players on the server doing questionable things, I figured i'd make this thread instead for those that would like some quick information to get the ball rolling playing what I consider one of the most fun classes in the game.

 

1. Talents

You have two talent trees you typically play with, as a Muti rogue, and you'll likely end up using both if you're progressing through content.

The first one you take is: 51/13/7

You're going to take this talent build earlier on. Mainly because your gear isn't in enough shape to put out enough energy return, or the damage to go deeper into combat as apposed to sub, so 5 points in relentless strikes helps you keep that energy flow going a bit, but this talent does start to lose its usefulness as your crit and haste get a bit higher up there. The haste from the combat tree starts to get more appealing to take, once you start getting more attack power as well.

At about 4k - 4.5k GS, you can start running something like this: 51/18/2

At this point with your gear, you should have sufficient enough stats that you can drop the 5 points you had in Relentless strikes, and pick up the other 2 points in imp dags for that crit, and lightning reflexes for that haste (calculator doesn't show it, but check your talent tree in game to see what it offers) 4k - 4.5k is an estimate, if you find your self with more than enough energy, and you aren't feeling starved, you should be fine to take this build. You'll also want the haste as your attack power starts getting to 4k, as the EP value for Haste shoots up once you get that amount of attack power, you should be nearing that amount unbuffed around 4k - 4.5k GS.

2. Stat Priority

You're a rogue, your main stat is of course agility. I'm not going to go super in depth in this, but keeping to the following, you should do alright:

  • Get your hit to 315. Spell cap for your poisons. You don't need more than this, and considering you have a good raid comp, you may even be able to run less, but 315 is the magic number.
  • 26/26 Expertise.

Once you've met both those criteria, you next focus is your attack power. Don't gem straight attack power, 1 point of Agility will be typically worth more than 1 point of Attack Power, but you're aiming for about 4000 or so attack power unbuffed . Once you hit this, you're going haste.

Crit is more valuable than armor penetration, so the items you're looking for should have a combination of Attack Power, Haste, Crit, also Hit and Expertise, assuming you aren't capped.

Do keep in mind, this isn't in depth. If you want a better of idea of what stats you should be aiming for, I recommend building a spread sheet, and running simulations. I feel around 4k Attack power is a pretty safe area to switch to haste focus, but if you want an exact answer, you're going to want to sim.

3. Glyphs

You want:

  • Glyph of Hunger for Blood. Pretty straight forward, more free damage. This is a must have.
  • Glyph of Mutilate. Reduces the energy cost of your main combo point builder. This is also a must.
  • Glyph of Fan of Knives. Great choice to help with AoE, this isn't required, but I recommend it if you're the only rogue in your 25 man, other wise you can take..
  • Glyph of Tricks of the Trade. Ideally, you and the rogue are going to be trading this for the 15% damage boost it gives you guys. This glyph reduces the cool down. I'd say this is a must have when you get 2 piece T10, or if you have a rogue in your 25 man.

As far as minor, take what you want. I recommend both Glyph of Safe Fall, and Glyph of Vanish however. I also like sprint, but its up to what you like.

4. The Basics

Instant Poison on your main hand, and Deadly Poison on your off hand. You want the faster weapon in your off hand.

Your damage is going to primarily come from your instant poison damage, and you apply it often through your Envenom buff. The idea behind this class is to keep Hunger for Blood up 100% of the time, SnD up 100% of the time, and to keep Envenom rolling for as long as possible.

With your talents, Envenom refreshes SnD to its 5 point maximum, so keeping this buff up requires no effort. Hunger for Blood requires a bleed on the enemy target to use this ability. If you have classes in your raid that can toss a bleed up, then you don't have to worry about bleeding the target your self, but if you do not have a class that consistently applies a bleed to the target, you'll usually just use a 1 point rupture to refresh this.

It is important to note that this is the only use for Rupture you're going to have. I know the set bonuses all increase your ruptures damage in T7 and 8, but this is a noob trap for Muti rogues. Just don't.

To start a fight, assuming your raid is doing pull timers, wait for a second or two before pull, pop a potion of speed, and stealth. From there, you can do the following openers:

  • With someone in raid applying bleed - Hunger for Blood, Mutilate, SnD, Mutilate, Envenom, Trinkets (if on use), Mutilate up to 4 or 5 Combo Points, Cold Blood, Envenom. wait for Envenom buff to get to 0 seconds, before you envenom again. You'll be doing your best to keep envenom up as often as you can, while keeping Hunger for Blood up. You have a talent called Overkill, which increases your energy regeneration for a set amount of time. When this expires, you can vanish and just continue doing your rotation, as vanish will pop overkill back on for a few more seconds, in some cases, it can also reset your haste potion as well, meaning you have the opportunity to use 3 per fight on some occasions. Doesn't always work, but when it does, its nice.
  • If no one in your raid can apply a bleed - Open with Garrote, Hunger for Blood, SnD, Mutilate, Envenom, trinkets (if you have on use), Mutilate (1 or 2), Cold Blood, Envenom. Then continue along with the rotation from the first bullet point. The only difference here is every 60 seconds, you're going to have to throw up a 1 or 2 point rupture, and reapply Hunger for Blood.

You do not want to let your energy cap, and you do not want to waste combo points. What I mean by wasting combo points, is if you're sitting at 4 points already, don't mutilate. You're wasting 1 - 2 Combo points, as it generates 2 non crit, and 3 with crit. Just Envenom at 4 combo points if you get it to 4. Its not worth using another ability to get the 1 combo point either. Just Envenom and continue on.

If you have an envenom rolling still, and you have 4 or 5 cp's ready for another Envenom, just wait for the buff to fall off. Overlapping the buff is just wasting energy, and time on the buff. The idea is to stretch it out as long as possible, to get more instant poisons in.

If you're required to use another poison, other than Deadly and Instant, Drop instant and apply the poison  you'll be needing to your main hand. Like using Anesthetic poison to help with Gluth enrages, if you need your hunters working on Zombie Chow.

Something to note, as mentioned by someone in the comments, you can try picking up a 1.3 swing speed dagger on the AH, and put the poison you'll need on that, and use a weapon swap macro and either auto attack the buff off Gluth, or Shiv it. As I commented right after, a death knight in our guild was playing around with this concept with their runes, to see if it was worth stacking Razorice and switching to Cinderglacier, and he found that when he did this, his runes stopped proccing. You may wish to try this on a dummy before you take this idea into a raid just to make sure your enchants and poisons still proc when you swap weapons, as I haven't tested this my self yet.

 

5. Misc. and Closing

Some rogues will say Double Berserking is the way to go, while others will say Berserking on the main hand, with Mongoose on the off hand is the way. Numbers are comparable, with double berserking pulling ahead. Double berserking is also typically cheaper than grabbing Mongoose, but if for whatever reason Mongoose is just that much cheaper than Berserking, you're probably fine to grab one mongoose if you're struggling to make money.

Shoulder enchants from Hodir Honored, and Wintergrasp are comparable. Hodir honored is obviously better, and exalted Hodir is most definitely better, but if you're in a pinch and need a quick enchant, the Wintergrasp shoulder enchant is not that much worse than the Hodir Honored enchant.

I'm not going to leave a BiS list here, as I firmly believe in making your own, and  what i'd consider BiS may differ from what another person may consider BiS, as if you're doing your best to min max, you would be considering things like raid comp for how much hit you're going to prio on your gear, which may open up for more damage oriented items, or maybe if you don't have things like Misery or a Draenei, you have to take more hit over straight damage items. That being said, there are some typical obvious choices for some items, like Fury of the Five Flights, as an example. So as you're looking at BiS lists, try and consider why it is they chose the items they did, and figure out if thats going to work for you.

I'm not going to leave gems here, because i'm lazy. However, you can check this site out for ez gem research http://www.gemfinder.ga/  you ideally are going to gem Hit, and Expertise, to cap, and then Agility and Haste. You also want a nightmare tear to complete your meta requirement, or whatever the blue equivalent is called. I dont' remember the name, but I believe you want the agility and crit damage meta. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond, I believe its called.

 

With all this being said, I find success with this class, with this information. This should be enough information for you to play this class reliably. If you're ever in need of a question being answered about Rogue, Xemni on the alliance, is always down to answer a question or two!

 

 

 

Edited by Xemni
Formatting. Corrections.
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Draklian    2
On 4/5/2018 at 11:44 AM, Xemni said:

If no one in your raid can apply a bleed - Open with Garrote, Hunger for Blood, Mutilate, SnD, Mutilate (1 or 2), Cold Blood, Envenom. Then continue along the as with the first bullet point. The only difference here, is every 60 seconds, you're going to have to throw up a 1 or 2 point rupture, and reapply Hunger for Blood.

You have this in the wrong order. Should be Garrote > Hunger for Blood > Slice and Dice > Mutilate > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation. The first time you get 5 combo points AND have 5 stack deadly up you use Cold Blood for envenom.

At a higher gear level with enough haste you can do: Garrote > HfB > Slice > Mutilate x2 > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation.

At lower gear levels you wont have enough haste/time to allow enough energy regen to muilatex2 + envenom before your first slice falls off.

 

On 4/5/2018 at 11:44 AM, Xemni said:

If you're required to use another poison, other than Deadly and Instant, drop instant, put deadly on your main hand, and run whichever other poison your guild needs you to on your OH, its the faster weapon typically, and you can shiv if need be. (I do this on gluth for my guild, so I can counter the enrage with anesthetic poison) and just play like you typically play.

Deadly should always go on the faster weapon, even if you need to remove an enrage for gluth like you have to. Put anesthetic on your slower weapon and pop envenom right before you need to remove his enrage. 

 

Edit: Corrected order of abilities. EG I forgot a mutilate in there.

Edited by Draklian
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Haunterik    13
14 hours ago, Draklian said:

You have this in the wrong order. Should be Garrote > Hunger for Blood > Slice and Dice > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation. The first time you get 5 combo points AND have 5 stack deadly up you use Cold Blood for envenom.

At a higher gear level with enough haste you can do: Garrote > HfB > Slice > Mutilate > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation.

At lower gear levels you wont have enough haste to allow enough energy regen to muilate + envenom before your first slice falls off.§

 

14 hours ago, Draklian said:


 

Deadly should always go on the faster weapon, even if you need to remove an enrage for gluth like you have to. Put anesthetic on your slower weapon and pop envenom right before you need to remove his enrage. 

Or you can buy 1.3 speed dagger for 20g from AH, put Anesthetic poison on it and on enrage just swap it for 2-3 sec to apply poison and then countinue with your ip and dp weapons and still be top DPS

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Xemni    6
On 4/13/2018 at 12:33 PM, Draklian said:

You have this in the wrong order. Should be Garrote > Hunger for Blood > Slice and Dice > Mutilate > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation. The first time you get 5 combo points AND have 5 stack deadly up you use Cold Blood for envenom.

At a higher gear level with enough haste you can do: Garrote > HfB > Slice > Mutilate x2 > Envenom > Use trinkets/racial/cd's whatever here (I would delay popping them until you have enough energy to mutilate) > normal 4+ CP envenom rotation.

At lower gear levels you wont have enough haste/time to allow enough energy regen to muilatex2 + envenom before your first slice falls off.

 

Deadly should always go on the faster weapon, even if you need to remove an enrage for gluth like you have to. Put anesthetic on your slower weapon and pop envenom right before you need to remove his enrage. 

 

Edit: Corrected order of abilities. EG I forgot a mutilate in there.

Thanks for pointing that out, you're right. I missed that as I was going through the whole thing for typo's, i'll go ahead and get that fixed, and thank you for reading through this!

As far as the second part, I figured I was going to have to Shiv the enrage off, I wasn't expecting it to instantly fall off with just the auto's alone, but you are correct as well with this. With the poison proccing as much as it does, its safe to have deadly on OH, and Anasthetic on the MH, since it'll proc almost immediately off the auto's alone when he enrages. I'll go ahead and edit that as well.

Again, thank you for your input! d:

 

On 4/14/2018 at 2:32 AM, Haunterik said:

 

Or you can buy 1.3 speed dagger for 20g from AH, put Anesthetic poison on it and on enrage just swap it for 2-3 sec to apply poison and then countinue with your ip and dp weapons and still be top DPS

This isn't a bad idea, but I was hesitant on doing this, as a friend of mine was experimenting with Silent Crusaders and Death Knight runes on his weapons. He was trying to stack razor ice with one Silent Crusader, and then swap over to a cinder glacier off hand. However, when he started doing this, all his runes stopped procing entirely when he'd switch out the weapon. I didn't get around to testing this my self, but I figured if it was doing it to him with his runes, that it might do the same with poisons and my berserking.

I figured what was happening was the runes were going on an internal cool down when he'd swap them out, much like when you swap out a trinket it goes on cool down.

I'll have to go smack a dummy later, I just keep putting it off.

Edited by Xemni

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Ysolte    6

You have blocked enchants for several seconds, after switching weapons, because players were glitching buffs with weaponswap macro. The best one had 2x berserk, 2x mongoose and 2x black magic at once(6 different daggers in total). So if your leader commands you to use anesthetic, you will sacrifice your dps for that. 

For lazy ones:

/equipslot 17 Librarian's Paper Cutter

/cast Shiv

/equipslot 17 Webbed Death

Double click macro, bcs gcd blocks reswap. Useless when you have two or more weapons named the same in bag. 

Not sure about vanish, but combat chains you for whole encounter, and there probably no chance to refresh your potion. Only death makes you out of combat during  boss fight :)

Xemni, are you sure with agi gems? As i remember, its 1.1 ap and 0,017 crit per 1agi (not sure about numbers, dont take that as sunwell statement or whatever like that), its more value when youre going pure ap to 4k then haste, as u said in your guide. 

 

And thank you for that guide, i approve that one! ;)

 

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Vaxsysl    15
On 05/04/2018 at 8:44 PM, Xemni said:

The first one you take is: 51/13/7

The link is not working. I suggest you to use Twinstar builder, our Armory has many errors.


I have two questions regarding your 2nd build. One, why is Quick Recovery your prime choice? Personally, I prefer 16% faster running + offensive feet enchant rather than 20% increased healing; hots are up, no one is going to die - and faster moving around the room equals less downtime (there is Sprint, aye, but still...). Secondly, you took Opportunity 2/2; where most players prefer Relentless Strikes 2/5. Could you elaborate your decision?

 

I believe that you did Tricks of the Trade little justice in your guide. Fan of Knives should never be taken for raiding in this expansion. The threat help is obvious, but regardless if it is 10 or 25 man raid, 15 Energy for ten whole seconds of doing +15% increased damage, casted on another raid member is VERY valued, more than the personal dps lost. Ten seconds is a lot of time! I played Rogue before Mage, and I can tell, especially Arcane (another single target beast), with ALL raid CDs active or simple solo buff + Hero/BL, give that mage tricks for those ten long seconds doing 15% more damage... If the mage actually manages to reach the haste cap for spells with CD usages, we're talking about 1.5k+ damage per seconds here. Aside from them; mage is only my favorite example, give glyphed tricks to any raider with buffs up, its party time (even without).

Good tricks are important. I never allow any Assassination rogue enter my (guild?) raid if he has FoN glyphed. It serves NOTHING. It does NOTHING. Comparing 20% more damage to FoN for occasional AoE to beastly 15% more damage for 10 seconds on someone... yeah. Speaking of which, you should add a macro for ToTT. Cast on target's target (the tank), modifier on someone specific or mouseover, etc; but with cancelaura when used twice.

 

That's it. Quick Recovery vs Fleet Footed is personal, but at Tricks, you really did it injustice, you did :)
And the macro. Gods know that too few players mentioned it and we have derps which only tell them to use with other rogues and not worry about it before T10. That's absolute bullshit.

 

Oh, one more thing. After my first mage was over, a friend rolled Rogue afterwards. He said that he ended up doing more damage when he swapped 14.h with deadly into the mainhand. I never tried that out myself. Could you post some feedback on it if you manage to test it out on some reliable fight?

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Ysolte    6
18 hours ago, Vaxsysl said:

[...]

Fan of Knives should never be taken for raiding in this expansion.

[...]

Good tricks are important. I never allow any Assassination rogue enter my (guild?) raid if he has FoN glyphed. It serves NOTHING. It does NOTHING. Comparing 20% more damage to FoN for occasional AoE to beastly 15% more damage for 10 seconds on someone... yeah. 

[...]

Anub (ToGC 25). Trust me, it does a lot more that nothing, especially for combat, where Combat Potency is more powerful than Focused Attacks. :) 

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Vaxsysl    15

Well, true enough, Anoob and four spiderlings...

I give it, a fine example, but kind of really the only one. Even still though, personally, I'd still press my single target dps and give that tricks to some AoE beast. While spiders must go down fast, you still need enough dps to push Anoob into p2. Comes down to the raid composition. Dem tricks tho!

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Xemni    6
On 5/10/2018 at 3:27 AM, Ysolte said:

You have blocked enchants for several seconds, after switching weapons, because players were glitching buffs with weaponswap macro. The best one had 2x berserk, 2x mongoose and 2x black magic at once(6 different daggers in total). So if your leader commands you to use anesthetic, you will sacrifice your dps for that. 

For lazy ones:

/equipslot 17 Librarian's Paper Cutter

/cast Shiv

/equipslot 17 Webbed Death

Double click macro, bcs gcd blocks reswap. Useless when you have two or more weapons named the same in bag. 

Not sure about vanish, but combat chains you for whole encounter, and there probably no chance to refresh your potion. Only death makes you out of combat during  boss fight :)

Xemni, are you sure with agi gems? As i remember, its 1.1 ap and 0,017 crit per 1agi (not sure about numbers, dont take that as sunwell statement or whatever like that), its more value when youre going pure ap to 4k then haste, as u said in your guide. 

 

And thank you for that guide, i approve that one! ;)

 

Alrighty, I haven't checked the forums in a bit, so i'm going to apologize for the late reply, but thanks for the info! I never got around to playing around with this, but it totally makes sense. So thank you for letting me know. As far as Agility gems, I usually take them. Agility will scale with kings, while flat attack power will not, and agility still grants a little crit as well. You'd honestly need to run a spread sheet to figure out what would be optimal and where, but I've seen flat attack power gems used, its not wrong to do.

23 hours ago, Vaxsysl said:

The link is not working. I suggest you to use Twinstar builder, our Armory has many errors.


I have two questions regarding your 2nd build. One, why is Quick Recovery your prime choice? Personally, I prefer 16% faster running + offensive feet enchant rather than 20% increased healing; hots are up, no one is going to die - and faster moving around the room equals less downtime (there is Sprint, aye, but still...). Secondly, you took Opportunity 2/2; where most players prefer Relentless Strikes 2/5. Could you elaborate your decision?

 

I believe that you did Tricks of the Trade little justice in your guide. Fan of Knives should never be taken for raiding in this expansion. The threat help is obvious, but regardless if it is 10 or 25 man raid, 15 Energy for ten whole seconds of doing +15% increased damage, casted on another raid member is VERY valued, more than the personal dps lost. Ten seconds is a lot of time! I played Rogue before Mage, and I can tell, especially Arcane (another single target beast), with ALL raid CDs active or simple solo buff + Hero/BL, give that mage tricks for those ten long seconds doing 15% more damage... If the mage actually manages to reach the haste cap for spells with CD usages, we're talking about 1.5k+ damage per seconds here. Aside from them; mage is only my favorite example, give glyphed tricks to any raider with buffs up, its party time (even without).

Good tricks are important. I never allow any Assassination rogue enter my (guild?) raid if he has FoN glyphed. It serves NOTHING. It does NOTHING. Comparing 20% more damage to FoN for occasional AoE to beastly 15% more damage for 10 seconds on someone... yeah. Speaking of which, you should add a macro for ToTT. Cast on target's target (the tank), modifier on someone specific or mouseover, etc; but with cancelaura when used twice.

 

That's it. Quick Recovery vs Fleet Footed is personal, but at Tricks, you really did it injustice, you did :)
And the macro. Gods know that too few players mentioned it and we have derps which only tell them to use with other rogues and not worry about it before T10. That's absolute bullshit.

 

Oh, one more thing. After my first mage was over, a friend rolled Rogue afterwards. He said that he ended up doing more damage when he swapped 14.h with deadly into the mainhand. I never tried that out myself. Could you post some feedback on it if you manage to test it out on some reliable fight?

FoK isn't useless lol There are quite a few places in this expansion where it is hard to be matched by other DPS classes. (Onyxia, Anub, Sartharion come to mind) You get a large enough pack of adds, the energy return from your crits will push it to where you can get out quite a bit of Fans (In the cases I listed earlier, typically infinite energy). On a lot of trash pulls you aren't going to out AoE some of the heavy hitters in this expansion, but it still does pretty respectable damage, and you'd be pretty foolish to completely dismiss it, even more foolish to call it useless. On top of that, there are a few fights with add phases where you'd benefit from fans. No cast time, just hit the button, do the damage. Repair bots on XT, elementals on Kologarn, freya when she pops out the 12 or so little lashers. There are quite a few places you can utilize the damage in Ulduar alone (albeit this would depend on your comp whether it would be worth it for you to even bother, but none the less, it has use)

As far as tricks, its a very useful utility ability, however, in more cases than not, I don't use it on my tanks. Our comp has hunters, whom typically MD pull, and tanks that typically don't lose threat (unless i'm screwing with someone). As far as throwing tricks on some of our DPS? They're also getting my threat. 10 seconds of all my threat, onto another DPS that may or may not be pushing high threat them selves can end in disaster  ( I actually toss it on our guilds death knight from time to time, to watch him rip threat and die when i'm feeling spiteful)

I do tricks other rogues, but that is because we're trading the threat. I don't usually swap the glyph out until ICC, where we grab the 2 set.

You may of noticed how the only two glyphs I actually consider required are notated in red "this is a must", you might also notice that Glyph of Fan, and Glyph of Tricks do not have that notation. Meaning its up to the player. How you use these, and how useful they'll be is completely up to the player. :)

As far as quick recovery, it also refunds energy if an ability fails to land, which is going to happen from time to time. Dodges, and Misses will happen, and I like how it keeps things going. I don't like how an occasional miss or dodge impacts my up time on envenom. It really helps with the energy economy. On top of that, I personally don't have an issue with up time on bosses, so its not a talent I find really useful. If I do need to reposition, sprint is there, but I don't typically need to use it. I really think this comes down to preference as well to be fair lol

Now for the second question, i'm not sure I understand what you're asking. I took both 2/2 Opportunity, AND 5/5 Relentless strikes. So I don't know what you are asking. Are you referring to why I didn't free up some points and drop them into lightning reflexes on the first build?

I'll see about getting those talent trees updated on something that works, thanks for letting me know they stopped working!

 

Edited by Xemni

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Vaxsysl    15

Fan of Knives as an ability is not useless! The glyph however, is wasted.

Onyxia?
Needless. I mean, whelps are crap, we all know that. Tricks glyph proves more useful to make the raid finish sooner.

Anub?
Well, yeah, but while "yeah", why in name of the Light would one of the most potent single target dps swap to AoE? I don't know, I... well, it DOES come down to the situation, but Anoob still needs to get damaged himself lest you focus so much AoE on the adds that you don't push p2 before third burrowing AND keep it up from there on to the end. There's more to it but true, if the raid wants the rogue to AoE, by all means, FoN can be good, but I'd still have that juicy 15% damage increase on some raid member rather than having my FoN tickle some more. Myself, I have never ever seen rogue going FoN mode in ToGC25 unless it was in p2 with someone dead and it was KILL THEM NOW OR WIPE situation. And you'd still end up with less overall damage done (and that's just one fight).

Sarth?
Meh, not really, whelps die faster than my little sister running to me when I get home with candy. Lots of small flame adds around? They die to "natural" AoE. One weapon swap to weapon with Anesthetic Poison and one-two FoNs will clear all Enrages and you're back at killing the boss.

Ulduar usefulness?
All of those adds die fast and one of your examples explode on death, so....

Well, yeah. Tricks glyph wins for overall damage done.

 

25 minutes ago, Xemni said:

As far as tricks, its a very useful utility ability, however, in more cases than not, I don't use it on my tanks. Our comp has hunters, whom typically MD pull, and tanks that typically don't lose threat (unless i'm screwing with someone). As far as throwing tricks on some of our DPS? They're also getting my threat. 10 seconds of all my threat, onto another DPS that may or may not be pushing high threat them selves can end in disaster... 

Me reading green text: Cheers, tricks should always go to dps unless the threat really is an issue! Well done!


Me reading yellow text:

/facepalm

Okay....okay.... k.
*goes to office to fetch external HD with old HD backup, wow documents among them*

Ah, there is my Rogue Macros notepad!

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cancelaura Tricks of the Trade
/use [nomod, help] Tricks of the Trade
/use [mod:ctrl, @focus] Tricks of the Trade 

One use without modifier will cast tricks on either your target if it is friendly or target's target if it is a hostile (boss's target is - the tank). If you use it with modifier, you will cast it on your focus, a dps that is about to do a considerate amount of punishing. Like, say that Arcane Mage that popped Arcane Power, Icy Veins, has Hero/BL, has popped Wild Magic Potion, has activated Hyperspeed Accelerators, has trinket proc and trinket use active. Or that X AoE dps with similar "buff" situation.
(or one can use mouseover instead of focus or simply have target's name written in the macro instead)
(there's actually a better version of the macro, but I was using this one at the time)

...and second usage of the macro removes the threat transfer.


Voila! 

The way you've been speaking, it's clear that you don't know of this. Canceling your buff does nothing to your target's buff. One buff you give yourself to transfer threat, their buff with the damage increase is something separate (their duration has nothing to do with yours). You give that beast dps 15% more damage done for ten seconds for mere 15 energy every half a minute!

How can Glyph of Fan of Knives ever compare for Assassination for "serious" raiding? With the occasional exclusion of Anoob, but even, like... THE RAID will do more damage with tott glyph, be it that beast single target or AoE nuker.

 

There you have it, my reasoning on how taking FoN glyph over ToTT usefulness is wasted in my eyes. I realize that I am coming "hard" in here, you have my apologies if you feel so, but (t)here, prove me wrong and I'll relent! :D I LOVE Tricks! <3 :x The glyph makes it sooo sexy!

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Xemni    6

We can argue back and forth about the usefulness of tricks on these encounters if you wish, but you seem dead set in that its not as useful, and thats perfectly fine. I'm not here to change your opinion. As I stated, ToTT is very useful, and a great ability. I think its again up to the player to utilize the ability as they see fit. I find it very useful on some fights. The quicker adds die, the quicker everyone cna get back on the boss, and again, depending on your comp, it may be a requirement for you get off the boss and actually contribute to the AoE, so the additional damage is pretty important.

So i'll say this again, I think its up to the player and the raid comp. If your comp is not super strong on AoE, a Rogues AoE is pretty strong, and should be utilized.

As far as Tricks goes: It IS a very useful ability, i'm not saying it isn't, again, refer to the first sentence in the bolded statement. If your comp is built with strong AoE, then I agree, ToTT is probably the better Glyph. You ideally wouldn't be getting off the boss if the comp is good enough, so tricks spam on someone should be acceptable.

You are correct, I didn't remember you could remove the threat gen off the top of my head ;D I just got done playing on a TBC server, so as far as advanced rogue, my mind is still a bit fuzzy. However, this isn't an advanced guide. This is just the basics, and something to take a quick look at to get started. (There is a better macro for it btw, I'll dig my old PC out of the closet later, and see if its still on my wrath client on it.)

Macro's, Gems, BiS, all stuff you wont find much here, because I don't think it would be fair for me to leave a guide about information that I may not remember, or that requires a spread sheet to really know for sure, but I did state that in the original post, so I wont reiterate it further :)

and I don't think you're coming on strong, so don't worry. Thank you for posting, and thank you for jogging my memory. I appreciate it!

But, my opinion is unchanged. I still think its up to the player, and the comp. I don't think it should be a required glyph UNTIL you grab 2 piece tier 10, as there is no excuse at that point. No energy cost period after all.

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Commando!    10

Personal gain from having the other glyph won't ever surpass the gain for someone being ToT'd repetitively (no matter if it's 6 or 10 sec) for these juicy 15% dmg, especially when called out during the proc. You don't lose much while doing so and the raid gains a lot. Unless you're selfish, then you can still raid Naxx. Cheers.

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Xemni    6
On 6/7/2018 at 12:06 AM, Commando! said:

Personal gain from having the other glyph won't ever surpass the gain for someone being ToT'd repetitively (no matter if it's 6 or 10 sec) for these juicy 15% dmg, especially when called out during the proc. You don't lose much while doing so and the raid gains a lot. Unless you're selfish, then you can still raid Naxx. Cheers.

I think it again, still depends on the fight my dude. If you look at the numbers for example Tricks of the Trade increases damage done to another player by 15% for 6 - 10 seconds on a 1 min cooldown, whereas FoK increases your damage of FoK by 20%, so long as you have the energy to cast the ability. On fights like Sartharion (Whelps), Anub (Bugs), Onyxia (Whelps) (These aren't the only fights with adds by the way, there are more.) Coupled by the fact with these 3 mentioned, your Energy Return is insane so you're non stop through out tossing FoK, your AoE on these fights can very easily surpass the damage steroid someone would get from Tricks throughout these fights. Especially these three fights in particular.

Ideally, if you wanna get down to it, you should probably grab Duel Spec, so you can swap out which glyphs you choose each fight. That is, assuming you're wanting to min max every encounter to some degree.

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